Religion

[Dreamhand]

There's a Taoist woodcut called "The Vinegar Tasters". It features a Buddist, a Confusionist, and a Taoist standing around a vat of boiling vinegar being cooked down (I know, it sounds like the lead in to a bad joke). They're all tasting the vinegar and the Buddist and the Confusionist have sour looks on their faces... but the Taoist has a serene and beautific expression.

Because the vinegar is perfect. It is exactly as vinegar should be, as it must be given the choices and events that led up to the moment of tasting. How else should it taste?

I don't believe that "perfect" is the equivalent of "ideal"... and that same distinction can be applied to the concept of "god", regardless of the dogmatic spin applied to it. God... the "first cause", the Initiator, the resonant essence of live across the multi-verse... IS perfect. So are each of us, for that matter. Any flaws we perceive are judgements we impose, evaluations based on very subjective societal, cultural, and experiential criteria. And hey... that's who we are... but the universe doesn't judge. The wind doesn't judge, a falling rock doesn't judge, a piece of steel pounded into a sword doesn't judge... it just is.

If you can remove your "self" from the equation and consider the possibility that everything IS perfect, then any perceived imperfections are flaws in our own awareness. And if that's true, then we can also work to neutralize the flaws and see the unverse, and each other, in a radically different light.

Now, I'm not such a purist as to suggest we all sit around and contemplate our navels and just "be"... all I'm suggesting is that if there is a saddness or anger or frustration in our lives, that it's US who can neutralize it, eliminate it, by removing judgement.

By the same token, I know that, on occassion, I enjoy getting worked up in a thrashing bit of drama and getting swept away in judgement and emotional imbalance. Hey... it's fun sometimes. But I also try to recenter myself when I become aware of it... and make restitution to the people involved if necessary to try and restablish balance.

I'm just sharing these ideas, gang... this has been a great thread to read and each of you have stirred up some wonderful explorations for my own thoughts. Thanks for that and for letting me drop in my two-cents.

[Elros]

I'm a fucking arrogant pedantic too clever by half atheist always feeling that I understand the plan... and there is no one leading it, but the physics laws (known or not)

I have no clue what you are trying to say here? Maybe you spelled some words wrong, or your english grammar isn't so good?

[sanchez]

I'm a fucking arrogant pedantic too clever by half atheist always feeling that I understand the plan... and there is no one leading it, but the physics laws (known or not)

I have no clue what you are trying to say here? Maybe you spelled some words wrong, or your english grammar isn't so good?

Sicofonte's statement makes fine sense to me...

[Nosajimiki]

Earth would be filled with craters if it weren't for Jupiter. I can't remember the rest off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that there are various purposes for most of the other planets.

There you go, just another example of how smart God is. He knew exactly where and how to place the planets so that we could survive.

I heard that if we were any closer to the Sun the earth would burn up, and if we were any farther that it would be to cold for people to survive. God placed us right in the perfect and only place where it would be possible for man to live.

God's creation is an awesome thing.

Earth was filled with craters, our dense atmosphere and the overall depopulation of astroids from the solarsystem is why we aren't still getting pelted as bad, and most of the ancient marks have erroded away but in all honesty we are still getting bombarded by the things. Just mostly little ones now. As for the distance, Mars is significantly farther away and was once capable of sustaining life before it's core solidified and it lost its magnetic field allowing solar winds to blow away its atmosphere. As for Jupiter, it only helps us when we are on the same side of the sun as it. When we are on the opposite side, it pulls asteroids at us. In regards to exact distance, you have to keep evolution in mind. We are adapted to survive in the conditions we are used to, yet there are other organisms that can survive at the mouths of volcanic vents, or on the polar ice caps. If we evolved at a different distance, then we would have evolved to survive those living conditions instead. Remember the bacteria that survived on the moon for over a year on some scientific instuments?

[Elros]

As for the distance, Mars is significantly farther away and was once capable of sustaining life before it's core solidified and it lost its magnetic field allowing solar winds to blow away its atmosphere.

Well then I am glad God put us here instead of Mars or we would all be dead now. *winks*

[saztronic]

Ah, but Earth's molten core is also cooling over time, just like Mars' did. It's just taking longer because Earth is half again as big as Mars. But, oh, a billion years or so and the atmosphere is toast.

Assuming, of course, that humans don't destroy it in the next hundred.

Or that some whack job of a deity doesn't, like, boil away a third of the rivers or whatever and then burn the world in an orgy of death, destruction, and tribulation. With gods like these, who needs devils?

[deadboy]

Ah, but Earth's molten core is also cooling over time, just like Mars' did. It's just taking longer because Earth is half again as big as Mars. But, oh, a billion years or so and the atmosphere is toast.

Assuming, of course, that humans don't destroy it in the next hundred.

Or that some whack job of a deity doesn't, like, boil away a third of the rivers or whatever and then burn the world in an orgy of death, destruction, and tribulation. With gods like these, who needs devils?

I would give us 50 years before a nuclear war either destroys the planet and humanity or provides the fix it needs by getting rid of all our technology and giving the earth a few million years to recover before we get back on our feet enough to do the same again - a few million years because this time we won't have oil and coal to speed our progression up

[Nalaris]

@Nosajimiki: Earth would be getting hit a lot harder right now if it weren't for Jupiter. When Earth was being pounded by asteroids, I'm not sure if Jupiter even existed. Yes, we do get hit by small stuff a lot...but no one has been killed by an asteroid in (I believe) over a hundred years (though a dog died in that time period).

I've got a question for everyone, now, that doesn't have much to do with the rest of this thread except that it's vaguely (or maybe not vaguely, depending on which religion you're coming from) theothetical (I think that's the right combination of roots).

Is the key to perfection(or happiness or whatever) balance?

[Elros]

In response to Saztronic, and deadboys posts, neither one of those things are going to be the fate of the earth. God is goind to destroy it with fire in the Battle of Amregaedon. Now i am not saying that if the world was left here another million years that what you said could not happen. You could be right, it could possibly happen. However, God will come back before that happens, because he is the one that will destroy all the knigdoms of the earth himself, and then rebuild the "New Jerusalem" in its place.

[deadboy]

In response to Saztronic, and deadboys posts, neither one of those things are going to be the fate of the earth. God is goind to destroy it with fire in the Battle of Amregaedon. Now i am not saying that if the world was left here another million years that what you said could not happen. You could be right, it could possibly happen. However, God will come back before that happens, because he is the one that will destroy all the knigdoms of the earth himself, and then rebuild the "New Jerusalem" in its place.

I'm sorry, but why couldn't God come back in a few billion years to destroy the world with fire? It doesn't have to be so soon (By the way, ever thought that the world being destroyed by fire sounds a -little- like the sun expanding and sucking the earth into it? This is of course the ultimate fate of "The world", but no chance humans. If the world lasts until then, and humanity doesn't destroy itself, by that point we quite easily would have spread to the far corners of the universe, come back, told us where the best places are, and gone back there to settle)

[Elros]

No I was saying that if the world would freeze like saztronic said in lets say 2 million years from today, then God would have to comeback before then, because the world freezing over is not the fate of the world. I didn't say he would l=come back soon, because we dont know when he will. Secondly, he will make his appearance when he destroys the earth, so it is not just a natural cause like the sun sucking it in or whatever. You can read in Revelation to get all the details of how it will happen, or if it by does end up happening in your lifetime then you can watch it..

[Nosajimiki]

Is the key to perfection(or happiness or whatever) balance?

This is a pretty vague question. Somethings need to be ballenced, some things need to be unblanced. Some things don't really have a qaulity of either.

EXS:

-a balance of concern with oneself and those around you leads to happiness.
-a balance of the number of people you try to hurt with the number of people you try to please leads to suffering or apathy(happyness results from pleasing without hurting)
-you can not balance the number of times you make your bed a week with the color of your TV b/c they are unrelated

[deadboy]

No I was saying that if the world would freeze like saztronic said in lets say 2 million years from today, then God would have to comeback before then, because the world freezing over is not the fate of the world. I didn't say he would l=come back soon, because we dont know when he will. Secondly, he will make his appearance when he destroys the earth, so it is not just a natural cause like the sun sucking it in or whatever. You can read in Revelation to get all the details of how it will happen, or if it by does end up happening in your lifetime then you can watch it..

, according to Revelations, it will happen in everyones lifetime, because there is no kinddom of heaven for souls until it does happen, when everyone who has been dormant will come back to life for his 1000 year reign before it happens

[Elros]

No I was saying that if the world would freeze like saztronic said in lets say 2 million years from today, then God would have to comeback before then, because the world freezing over is not the fate of the world. I didn't say he would l=come back soon, because we dont know when he will. Secondly, he will make his appearance when he destroys the earth, so it is not just a natural cause like the sun sucking it in or whatever. You can read in Revelation to get all the details of how it will happen, or if it by does end up happening in your lifetime then you can watch it..

, according to Revelations, it will happen in everyones lifetime, because there is no kinddom of heaven for souls until it does happen, when everyone who has been dormant will come back to life for his 1000 year reign before it happens

Um... you are quite mistaken actually. That is not at all how it goes.

[Nalaris]

The Battle of Armageddon will see the destruction of the Earth in a great baptism by fire. I'm not sure if God said he would do it directly. Mankind will probably annihilate itself. God, through his promises, limits He has intentionally placed on His Own power to give us free will, cannot interfere with such an action as nuclear war (though He can conveniently cause all the missiles to misfire, or whatever, but generally He only acts so drastically when the safety of His Church is directly threatened).