Religion

[rklenseth]

What I don't get is why they are still arguing with each other when it's obvious they're never going to agree or come to a compromise on anything. People of faith will always have their faith (well until they lose it I guess). And people of science will have their science. Does either prove without a doubt that God does or does not exist? In my opinion, no. Will one ever find the truth (if one exists at all)? Well if you're a person of faith hopefully your faith will come through. And if you're a person of science well either way you're most likely kind of screwed, sorry to say (unless God is as forgiving as Jesus claims so I guess there still might be some hope). So my question is what is the point to search for God or search for the purpose of existence? How about we just live, love (and if not that then at least respect), and die and if something comes along the way then all the merrier (or not if it happens to be something bad).

Now the real question should be is if you exist and I'm not making all of you up. Now I could be here typing away at an imaginery computer in an imaginery news station while being pissed off at my imaginery co-workers because I have to tape these crappy imaginery weathers while counting the hours before I go back to my imaginery home to wake up again and do the same damn imaginery crap while I sit here and talk to imaginery people over an imaginery network called the web. And maybe I don't exist at all and am just a figment of someone's mind. So if you're not already confused or have not stopped reading the ravings of this madman then perhaps you'll join me in trying to prove I exist first before we try to prove it God exists but first you'll have to prove that you exist. You know it sort of negates itself if you don't even exist and you prove I exist.


Ok, now I'm done........for a little while...... :twisted:

[Nosajimiki]

I see no reason why I, you, or God need to exist at all. "I think therefore I am." What I am really doesn't matter. What you are doesn't matter either. What's God? real or imaginary? I feel my own existance so I react to what I feel, I sense your existance which impacts my existance, so I react to you. I do not feel God's existance so I dismiss him. Some of you do feel God's existance so you react to him. Why do I ask questions? Why to I formulate arguements? Because I think. Where my thoughts lead me are irrelivent, because no matter what I think I will still be, and if I cease to be, then I wont be around to care that I am not.

... I wouldn't say that that is depressing at all.

[rklenseth]

So those voices in my head are real!? :shock:

[Dee]

You are describing the day of judgement. Except that after that, everyone who once lived on earth will live again to be judged.

except that the version Nakranoth is giving wont happen until billions if not trillions of years after mankind no long exists, according to anything I've ever read on the topic, man will still exist on Judgement Day meaning either this has nothing to do with final judgement or mankind is destined to survive, confined to only earth, until the end of the Universe... the latter is highly unlikely if you ask me.

No, people will not exist by then, but God will make them all live once again to be judged. All of them. Everyone who once existed... Everyone!

[Nalaris]

Hopefully the Earth will have grown substantially by then, because fitting approximately 100 billion(and that's assuming the Earth goes out within a century due to nuclear warfare/armageddon) people on the Earth is going to be difficult...

I'm fairly certain the actual judgment will take place in Heaven, however, because Heaven, being infinitely large, can therefore comftorably fit 100 billion/trillion/googolplex/whatever people within an infintessimally small fraction of itself.

The Big Bang theory is based off of two basic assumptions, however.

1: at some point, the original super-dense dot spontaneously popped into existence.
2: then that point spontaneously exploded, which either started our universe, or it started the first universe, which collapsed into ANOTHER super-dense dot and again detonated.

Correct me if I'm wrong about these two assumptions. It seems so much more likely that the super-dense dot(SDD) was created and detonated intentionally, since there's nothing to stop another SDD from coming spontaneously into existence like the first(to our knowledge).

The only way to explain the Big Bang theory without assuming that the SDD comes from nowhere is pretty much the same gods-before-gods theory I stated earlier, but with a few words switched: the universes have no beginning, there was always matter and there always will be, and it's all caught in a recursive loop.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, if enough evidence is brought against this I may be willing to take another look at Athiesm, but the odds of God's existence just seem greater than his non-existance(ecspecially since prophecies concerning airplanes came true to the letter, since I find that prayer easily alleviates pain and frequently causes me to find lost objects, and all the stories of the power of prayer/the priesthood/the Holy Ghost/insert medium for miraculous occurrences here I've heard, and the fact that I find my life suddenly turns upward when I start obeying the words of the Prophet).

[Sicofonte]

Gladly.

The first assumption is incorrect: The SDD was there, no one telling if if was just popped up or was the result of the previous universe collapse.

The second assumption two, since it is not a spontaneously explossion: too much mass in a point mean a explossion given the energy concentration. It is not the result of someone pricking the balloon, it is just the result of matter properties.


Note: No! please! no one telling me that the matter properties were set by God... They were. Period.



About the benefits of praying... someone want to listen to the benefits of cannabis and how it makes me feel the truth?... no?... I supposed it.

To feel "something" is not a probe of "something" existence.

[Nakranoth]

1: at some point, the original super-dense dot spontaneously popped into existence.
2: then that point spontaneously exploded, which either started our universe, or it started the first universe, which collapsed into ANOTHER super-dense dot and again detonated.

Again... according to the law of conservation of mass/energy, that dot never Popped into being... it existed an infinte period of time before (or possibly durring, but nevermind that concept... it's really just an unnecissary confusion) the "big bang".

[Nosajimiki]

So those voices in my head are real!?

Didn't say they are real, just said it doesn't matter if they are real or not if you experience them.

[Nosajimiki]

You are describing the day of judgement. Except that after that, everyone who once lived on earth will live again to be judged.

except that the version Nakranoth is giving wont happen until billions if not trillions of years after mankind no long exists, according to anything I've ever read on the topic, man will still exist on Judgement Day meaning either this has nothing to do with final judgement or mankind is destined to survive, confined to only earth, until the end of the Universe... the latter is highly unlikely if you ask me.

No, people will not exist by then, but God will make them all live once again to be judged. All of them. Everyone who once existed... Everyone!

I don't know enough about Islam's version of the final judgement, but the book of Revelations (the Christian version) is very clear about the mankind still existing. Also, the rapture (reunion of body and soul) was invented by early chruch leaders as a metaphorical explaination of how man can be rejudged at the final comming to accomodate the fears of early christians who were concerened that Jesus would not return in thier lifetimes.

[Nosajimiki]

As for the SSD origen, I only know of one even pseudo-scientificly accepted version that indictates a spontanious SSD which is the string theory version. The idea is that the entire universe did not start out as infantly compressed mass as all but rather a homogenious expanse of vibrations within a plate. The idea is that our plate (something that we would precieve as the the whole of existance) randomly collided with another plate not releasing matter, but creating a splash in which the resultant divisable vibrations are what we precieve to be particles... if you don't have any background in string theory this might not make since, but if I really wanted to go into the nitty gritty details, I doubt anyone would take the time t read it anyway.

[Nalaris]

In other words, the Big Bang theory mirrors almost exactly the Mormon concept of God's creation: there were always Gods, always, and those of their children who proved righteous enough to be responsible of an entire universe were made Gods and started their own universes, restarting the cycle.

Similarly, the officially accepted scientific theory is that the universe, and the components of the SDD that created, always was, and it endlessly repeats its cycle. Only difference is the concept of an afterlife...which lands us back at the beginning. Again.

It seems we, too, are wrapped in an endless cycle.

[Sicofonte]

if I really wanted to go into the nitty gritty details, I doubt anyone would take the time t read it anyway.

I'd like to read it (I'm not joking)

Since is sense in your post?

[Elros]

Also, the rapture (reunion of body and soul) was invented by early chruch leaders as a metaphorical explaination of how man can be rejudged at the final comming to accomodate the fears of early christians who were concerened that Jesus would not return in thier lifetimes.

That is not correct. The rapture was not invented by the early church leaders, but was written in the Bible in many places. Here is just one of the many verses backing up the rapture of the church(saved christians).

1 Thessalonians 4:16 - 17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This happens right before he destroys the earth in the battle of Armegedon(the judgment day on earth).

[Pearl]

Disagree with 1, 2 & 3

Religion is poison.

[Elros]

Disagree with 1, 2 & 3

Religion is poison.

We have been off that topic for about 70 pages. *smiles*