Statue made in honor US Soldiers

[Pirog]

Nitefyre>

but I'm quite confident about the WMDS in iraq, always have been.

I'm actually surprised that the American forces simply hasn't staged a WMD-find, by putting WMD in some bunker and then pretending to stumble upon them.

The idea of Saddam moving his ( so far non-existing) WMD to other countries feels a bit funny to me, since the American army must be able to monitor pretty much every cm of Iraqi soil using spy satelites and planes...

[nitefyre]

Nitefyre>

but I'm quite confident about the WMDS in iraq, always have been.

I'm actually surprised that the American forces simply hasn't staged a WMD-find, by putting WMD in some bunker and then pretending to stumble upon them.

The idea of Saddam moving his ( so far non-existing) WMD to other countries feels a bit funny to me, since the American army must be able to monitor pretty much every cm of Iraqi soil using spy satelites and planes...

The ability of the US Military isn't god. Or else no one would be stupid enough to fight them. There's no proven machine in service that can detect WMDs country wide. So thats why theres something called UN weapons inspectors.

=D THE WMDs most likely existed, because afterall they were given WMDs and the Conclusion of the UN in 98 during their withdrawal was there were Hidden WMDs in Iraq. Perhaps you ought to find the transcript of it.

[Pirog]

Nitefyre>

No one is stupid enough to fight the Americans.
Do you think Saddam wanted a war?
And I'm not saying that they can see hidden WMDs, but they would be able to see a huge convoy of trucks carrying them over the border...

...and the Conclusion of the UN in 98 during their withdrawal was there were Hidden WMDs in Iraq.

Yes, but that was simply a conclusion. There is always room for error, as the fact that no weapons were found have proven so far.

[nitefyre]

Nitefyre>

No one is stupid enough to fight the Americans.
Do you think Saddam wanted a war?
And I'm not saying that they can see hidden WMDs, but they would be able to see a huge convoy of trucks carrying them over the border...

...and the Conclusion of the UN in 98 during their withdrawal was there were Hidden WMDs in Iraq.

Yes, but that was simply a conclusion. There is always room for error, as the fact that no weapons were found have proven so far.

Yeah, thanks to Scott Ridder, who bah, prolly took money from Saddam to send them inspectors the wrong way in Iraq.

Its nice that not only the Americans now are underminding the UN.

It doesn't take a huge convoy, hell it could just be a 5 tonner, or a trailer, or an oil truck filled with Chem weapons.

There were tons of those, plus many refugees. If you wanted the US to hit each one of those, well yea right.

[Pirog]

Blix is pretty convinced that there are no WMD in Iraq anyway...I heard he isn't all that popular in America.

Personally I think Iraq had every right to have WMDs in the first place.
I don't like the hypocracy in having Western countries with huge arsenals of WMD waging war on third world countries just because they are trying to get equal defence.

Sure, Saddam was a bloody mad man, but I think Bush is much more likely to use WMD than Saddam would have if he had remained in power.

This "War on Terror" is a conflict that USA can never win...for every Saddam and Bin Laden they kill a hundred more are born.
I bet that countries like North Korea and Iran are seriously considering supplying terrorist groups with WMD, since they are accused of doing it anyway...so this war may very well speed things along to the point where a nuclear bomb sets of somewhere in the western world...

[nitefyre]

Ok, now I've lost all interest in arguing with you. You just said that the War on Terror isn't one worth fighting. Look, 3,000 Americans died, for no fucking damned reason on september the 11th. 3 fucking thousand. Each one an individual, with a life, with a family, with soemthing to look forward to. And like that, without provoking any of the attackers, they fucking blew up 2 of the most wonderful landmarks. You think those firemeen ran into the building, and died-crushed between the steel, burned alive for nothing? Do you think the hundreds of people who died in the Spain bombing shouldn't be dealt with. Something's really fucked up with your ideas, and Berserks.

And something else, look how cowardly it is that you state there may be a nuke set off in the west world, and not take action to prevent it. Preventive deterrence. I'm sure there are many that agree with me, but it sickens me to have to prove to you that justice, the WAR ON TERROR needs to be rethought..... as you said "..so this war may very well speed things along to the point where a nuclear bomb sets of somewhere in the western world..." Its people like yourself, who let people come and beat the crap out of you, and let them do it, and allow them to do it, that will make this war hard to win.

From my understanding, I would actually equiviate Maily (and the death of Maynard) to Bush (and the capture of Saddam). Perhaps, you'd know the difference, if the terrorists struck where you lived, because you wouldn't fight back and they'd strike again and again. Now that we have 3 topics discussing the same thing, I'll take 2 steps back.

[Pirog]

Nitefyre>

But if we (USA and Europe that is) would just have pulled out of the Middle East instead of constantly meddling in their affairs the twin towers would still stand today.

I mean, listen to yourself...unprovoked, without reason?
Do you think Bin Laden spent all those years of planning it, and sealing his fate, just for the fun of it? They hate America and Europe because we stand for everything evil in their eyes, and although I don't consider them good in any way neither do I see USA and Europe as the "good side."
They just want to be left alone, and if we were in their position we would behave just as they do. It is their only chance, since they can in no way fight back in conventional warfare.

The War on Terror will only bring more terrorist attacks upon civilian targets in the west...haven't you understood that yet?
The Israel/Palestine conflict stands as a shining example that you can't stop terror by waging war on it...you need to fix the real problem.

We in USA/Europe still see the rest of the world as a little child that we have to tutor, and if it behaves badly we give it a spanking.
That is an arrogant way to see the world, and many European countries are finally starting to learn a lesson from our violent history.

In some way I have sympathy for the "terrorists", although I don't share many of their ideals.
But they know, that if the stop the fighting, they will soon have a western society, and since they loath the idea of that they are willing to die to prevent it.

I'm not so sure myself that I like the idea of having the same culture in every country around the world...to travel to exotic locations and end up eating at McDonalds...because that is what we are heading for.
Globalisation has many good qualities, but it is also killing the unique cultures that has formed during thousands of years.

[Pirog]

Nitefyre>

From my understanding, I would actually equiviate Maily (and the death of Maynard) to Bush (and the capture of Saddam).

Yes, but I see that to as a very wrongful action from Maily's part.
Maily kept my character Silverfoot in jail in Seatown Forest for many years, and one time decided to kill her, over the fact that Silverfoot had led a squad of soldiers from Krif to hunt down terrorists that killed people in Krif. The only thing she did wrongfully was to keep a two day lock-down in the the hills without authorisation.
For this she spent all that time in jail and nearly lost her life.

And the Maily goes and kills Maynard without being 100 % sure of his guilt. (and even if she was, he deserved a trial according to the law.)

So yes, I also find the situation very much like the USA/Iraq one...Maily took the law into her own hands and killed someone in a way that she according to regional law deserves to be executed for...

[nitefyre]

Nitefyre>

From my understanding, I would actually equiviate Maily (and the death of Maynard) to Bush (and the capture of Saddam).

Yes, but I see that to as a very wrongful action from Maily's part.
Maily kept my character Silverfoot in jail in Seatown Forest for many years, and one time decided to kill her, over the fact that Silverfoot had led a squad of soldiers from Krif to hunt down terrorists that killed people in Krif. The only thing she did wrongfully was to keep a two day lock-down in the the hills without authorisation.
For this she spent all that time in jail and nearly lost her life.

And the Maily goes and kills Maynard without being 100 % sure of his guilt

. (and even if she was, he deserved a trial according to the law.)

So yes, I also find the situation very much like the USA/Iraq one...Maily took the law into her own hands and killed someone in a way that she according to regional law deserves to be executed for...

My point is the IRAQ war is debatable, if it should've been done, who's more righteous than the other.

What you have to understand that a civilized world mustn't then use such disgusting violence on other INNOCENT people, and WOT is not debatable is the reason it is being fought, Isolationism to a degree is acceptable BUT TERRORISM IS NOT. I'm not going to argue with you anymore now, since you obviously support the ideals of terrorism and "sympathize" with evil.

O.o *rolls eye at the rest of the comments* You remind me of my avatar:

[Pirog]

since you obviously support the ideals of terrorism and "sympathize" with evil.

Well, with conclusions like that I doubt that you are open for discussion with any other people than those who support your own ideas.

[rklenseth]

There is too much back forth accussations and insults. Try to refrain from that as it doesn't do anyone any good.

[Pirog]

I actually don't think I have insulted Nitefyre. (If I have, I'm sorry.)
The last thing I wrote was merely a fact, because you simply can't make accusations such as the one he made against me based on what I have written...it is sad that we can't hold a discussion without people having to go to such extremes.

I know it looks spiteful to use his quote as a signature, but I have been looking for a proper signature for a while and this was simply to good to let is pass

[Dark_Angel_04]

Of course Bush is a threat to the world. But do you think that he or anyone else directly in charge of the US nuclear arms supply is going to admit that?

In my opinion the whole Bush being a threat is just a load of crap, All he is doing is trying to be like Daddy and fit into his Daddies pants, Who has the bigger P3n15. After all wasn't it Georg Bush SR who decided he wanted a piece of Saddam in the first place, Desert Storm? Do not get me wrong, I have lost several friends and family members in Iraq and I think Bush should have gone about things more diplomatically, He couldn't wait to finish what his father started and thats why he was so quick to jump the gun and attack the middle east. I think however the American way of dealing with things is to place the blame on other people, We have the power to decide who we want to run our country and when they do something that we do not like then we should take a look into the mirror and really think, He is in power because WE PUT HIM THERE! Wake up people! If every american would use thier gift of freedom and VOTE then we might of had a different outcome of the whole 9-11 situation.

[kroner]

Look, 3,000 Americans died, for no fucking damned reason on september the 11th. 3 fucking thousand. Each one an individual, with a life, with a family, with soemthing to look forward to.

You make me sick, you know that? When it's Americans it's "3 fucking thousand"; but when it's Japanese people it's meh... 200,000. oh well; when it's Iraqis, who cares. This pisses me off to no end. The media does it all the time. Spend half an hour on the 10 people who die in some mudslide in the US and be like "oh yeah and 200 Indians died in fire but what's the difference, right?" I'm not sure if you were aware but people who don't live in western coutries also have families.
This is the lack of objectiveness I'm talking about. I live in New York City too. My dad was going to funerals for weeks. But that doesn't mean that their lives should carry anymore weight than foreign strangers. For just one moment put yourself in someone else's shoes, someone different from you.

[Pirog]

kroner>

As usual I totally agree with you.
It is sick how western media always puts a focus on our own and neglect people in far off countries.
When the great earthquake hit Iran recently and a lot of people died, and thousands became homeless, Swedish media made the top story out of a Swedish couple that had died there...like they were worth more than the others.
It's sickening...media has such a control over people, because the way it forms the truth it has a huge inpacts on peoples understanding.