Get Bent, Congressman.

[formerly known as hf]

I’ve got to say, it scares me that the oil companies have so much power that the actual leaders of the nation are swayed by them.

Swayed by? They are the US Government - the amount of ex-oil industry barons or people with very close ties to the oil industry in the US government is quite scary.

If anything, Cuba is mentioned because the refugees are involved with LOCAL socioeconomic developments.

I know enough about the American press and the lack of interest in international affairs to fully believe that Cuba is only ever mentioned in Local press - as far as I'm aware, the local news is about the only news most of the American public ever care about, if that.

Schme - you make valid points, you have a valid argument - but don't make the mistake I used to make.
When you say things like 'you' in a post, ("The reason the embargo is still there is because you can't damn well turn around after decades of embargo, propaganda, hundreds upon hundreds of assasination attempts and a botched invasion. At least not without oil. ") to mean a nation, it becomes personal, not political.

Bitch about American national policies to your heart's content, but don't start addressing your anger as if it's the fault of all Americans - who aren't all culpable, and may even agree with you.

[wichita]

Each country has it's own well scripted "free" press. In China and Russia it is scripted by the govenrment. In Europe, it is scripted to retaliate to whatever the rest of the world is talking about. In the States it is scripted by the personal agendas of the reporters, special interests groups (that are also pulling the givernment purse strings), and the entertainment industry. I have the feeling it is pretty much the same in Canada as the US, but it has been a while since I have been up there.


No matter where you are the media or some other social organization is telling you what to think. Of course, each individual's propaganda is always superior to other peoples' propaganda, and the sooner the rest of the world realizes that and adopts to that "civilized" and "enlightened" way of thinking and plays by a proper set of cultural norms, the sooner we would have world peace.


In the meantime, there are the quiet decent people who go about their lives, doing the best they can and helping each other out while the fundamentalists all bark and squabble and blow each other to tiny bits.

[Schme]

When you say things like 'you' in a post, to mean a nation, it becomes personal, not political.

By you I mean anyone, not America. America cannot do that in the situation no more than anyone else could. Sorry if that confused you. I don’t at all mean to say any of us has any say in the matter.

What Talapus was pointing out is that the anticommunist propaganda is not being pumped out against Cuba like that anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I know that. But they've never changed the posistion.

The only negative connotation that Cuba recieves from the press today is that thousands of Cubans are flooding into Florida on rafts. If anything, Cuba is mentioned because the refugees are involved with LOCAL socioeconomic developments.

True enough. The issue of Communism is long long dead. Nobody really gives a damn about it anymore. The current "Communist" governments in power aren't, as everyone knows, even really Communist anymore. Like what I was saying before, after totting a line for so long, in this case, the Communist line, you can't just turn around after having killed people to say in power and say "Actually, turns out we were wrong boys. This wasn't such a good idea after all."

But tell you what, I know about that, Wichita. It's not a very hard thing to know about, if you care to find out, which I do.

But, being that you aren't actually living in the States, I wouldn't expect you to know how life actually works in the United States anymore than you would expect me to understand how life actually works in Canada.

So please tell me more about the world view that I live in in you pretentious, self-righteous prick. Condemn me because my countrymen tend to force the world to play by their social standards instead of bowing down to your own agenda.

Bigot.

I'm afraid you're wrong, Witchita. People know an awful lot about America. It's not hard to find out. Americans don't know an awful lot about Canada, unless they take the time to specifically look into it or happen to do bussiness here, but Canadians just by living find out a great deal about American culture just because it's so very strong. American music, American movies, American television, American sports stars, we've got it.

And guess what? Whatever you want to know about America, you can find out. America is everywhere. There's no place in the entire world where there isn't a bit of the land of the free. You can find out damn near anything you want to know.

And do you want to know what else, my friend? I've been to America. I've seen the Home of the Brave with my own to eyes, and not just on some tour of landmarks, either. I've not been to the landmarks.

Ever been to a Mohawk reserve in the northeast? What about a housing project out up outside New York?

Don't tell me I don't know about America, Wichita. Because I do. I know the gleaming suburbs of bedroom communities where office workers dwell, I've seen the crumbling crappy ass shacks beside the casinos and pawn shops that rake in wedding rings and sell off family heirlooms like they were peanuts to the tourists who pass through, giving the former owner enough for a few bottles and a couple of rocks, and if there's any left, for some food for the kids.

Don't tell me I know nothing about America, Wichita. I've read the books and the papers, listened to the radio, watched the TV and seen the movie stars, yeah, I've done that. But I've lived with the people, buddy. Lived, dealt, drank, and everything else. So don't go all "Fuck the foreign liberal snob, God bless America, Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on!” on me, alright, buddy?

Sorry to burst you’re bubble there, but I know America. No, not as well as you. You’ve lived in it you’re whole life, you were born there and it’s your country, and no, not all Canadians or whoever else are like me and know what I know, But I know America.


Secondly, I’m not condemning you, Witchita. You and I both know that you’ve got absolutely nothing to do with any decision that’s going to come about, and probably never will. I don’t even know you, Witchita, so don’t say I’m condemning you. Unless you’re some sort of Senator or an oil baron or something. Are you? If so, then yes, I’m condemning you. The average American has nothing to do with this.


And what’s my agenda, eh buddy? Tell me that.

I have the feeling it is pretty much the same in Canada as the US, but it has been a while since I have been up there.

Yes, except that we also have a government funded broadcasting corperation which is free to do pretty much whatever it wants without being influenced by anyone, even the government, although all they really do is fearmonger and try to look cool for "the youth."

No matter where you are the media or some other social organization is telling you what to think. Of course, each individual's propaganda is always superior to other peoples' propaganda, and the sooner the rest of the world realizes that and adopts to that "civilized" and "enlightened" way of thinking and plays by a proper set of cultural norms, the sooner we would have world peace.

In the meantime, there are the quiet decent people who go about their lives, doing the best they can and helping each other out while the fundamentalists all bark and squabble and blow each other to tiny bits.

True enough.

[Zanthos]

All I want to say, is that as conservative as I am, the oil industry still pisses me off. I believe that the easiest way to bring about peace in places like the middle east is to end the world's depencence on oil (cutting off the huge cash flow to terrorist groups like the taliban) however the USA would never support this due to some points Schme has already brought up.

Personally, my plan is to run for president as a moderate democrat and change parties to republican, so I don't have to deal with oil conglomerates for my campaign.

But seriously, how old is Castro now? Can't the government just want a few more years until he kicks the bucket? We're not even going to get a dime from the deals anyway, so what's the point?