Cantr II Discussion Forum

Alright, I may be whining and over critical with this. If so, I apologize. But I have been stewing about it since it happened. Has RP sunk so low? Is there no way to more creatively introduce a new character into the world and, by some weak glimmer of hope, actually pretend at all that the character was not spawned with the firggin wiki in his hands?

I guess we all have our rants, but I am just seeing far too much of this crap all over the place lately so I am actually going to share mine. For any of you out there not aware of what bad roleplaying is, I submit this to the academy for reviewal. Any other gems, feel free to share. Class is now in session.

Bottom up in true Cantrian fashion.

1480-0: a man in his twenties says: "Hey if anyone has a shovel, and is
willing to rent it to me, I will give 40 percent of the onions I farm to
them. I am an expert at farming it seems, so giving me one would be quite fast and efficient."
1480-0: a man in his twenties says: "Damn...I'm strong..glad I'm farming onions."
1480-0: You see a man in his twenties expertly hurt a man in his twenties (himself) using a bare fist.
1480-0: a man in his twenties says: "Can anyone tell me the name of this location?"
1480-0: a man in his twenties says: "I hope the town doesn't mind if I take these carrots. I do apologize in advance if this is considered theft."
1480-0: You see a man in his twenties take some carrots.
1480-0: a man in his twenties says: "Hmm good...I spawned in a largely
populated location. Hello..I am (name edited for tact)"

*cringes* Eep!

I don't see how a newspawn character can know how many people it takes to make a 'largely populated location.' Personally I'd like someone to spawn in Kwor or somewhere heavily populated and say "Blimey, there's not many people here," since they have no real concept of population density.

that's probably I would have done if I didn't read the Wiki and the rules before I played.... (I don't think any of my characters do that ever......)

should that be considered to be CRB? using the info gained possibly from the other characters as a reference to the town's population? or I'm just being picky?

What's really sad is that I witnessed probably the same player do the same thing in one of my towns. Though he wasn't farming onions. But the verbiage and the actions the character perfomed are almost identical.

I’d consider that using IG cultural knowledge from another character to effect the way the character is played, so a CRB to some extent. And certainly poor form, I mean how do you build any interesting personality off of that? Maybe a snotty know-it all… that’s all I can think of.

Welcome to Cantr, the land where people don’t know how to make wrong decisions (especially with the little things) from the time they start life.

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My biggest Cantr pet peeve is when someone says “Is anybody awake right now?” and leaves it at that. It’s cool with me if it’s “Is anybody awake right now? I need some help dragging.” or something similar where they state a purpose for needing someone awake, but asking if people are awake without a reason angers and saddens me greatly. “Is anybody awake right now?” followed a few minutes later by “I guess not.” or “Ok, I’ll go back to sleep then.” is the only thing that can make that worse. If you are going to say something, say it! Cantr is not a chat-room, people don’t need to be online to read what you type, and conversations don’t need to take place live to be valuable.

Mafia Salad wrote:I’d consider that using IG cultural knowledge from another character to effect the way the character is played, so a CRB to some extent. And certainly poor form, I mean how do you build any interesting personality off of that? Maybe a snotty know-it all… that’s all I can think of.

Welcome to Cantr, the land where people don’t know how to make wrong decisions (especially with the little things) from the time they start life.

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My biggest Cantr pet peeve is when someone says “Is anybody awake right now?” and leaves it at that. It’s cool with me if it’s “Is anybody awake right now? I need some help dragging.” or something similar where they state a purpose for needing someone awake, but asking if people are awake without a reason angers and saddens me greatly. “Is anybody awake right now?” followed a few minutes later by “I guess not.” or “Ok, I’ll go back to sleep then.” is the only thing that can make that worse. If you are going to say something, say it! Cantr is not a chat-room, people don’t need to be online to read what you type, and conversations don’t need to take place live to be valuable.

I find that as more of an opinion of the way characters talk than it deserves to be put in this Roleplay Hall of Shame. If that's they way characters are, then that's the way characters are. It is their personality. At least in my opinion.

It is one of those times when you shouldn't know too much, but you have to know enough. I started before the Wiki was invented and naturally my chars knew absolutely nothing... and established chars got fed up with newspawns asking the same questions all the time. (Hence the Wiki, presumably.) Somehow you have to find a happy medium, as the morose seeker for spiritual help complained.

This is an inevitable result of the skills system we have.

*shrugs*

If we didn't want this, we shouldn't have skills... and surprise surprise, I don't want skills.

As much as I agree with wichita (and Surly even more so), this is deeply bad RP, naming and shaming (even though I've done it myself before now) needs to be done properly.

Some people just don't get it, and this is more likely to make them stop playing Cantr than actually learn to adapt their style. It's all well and good saying it's crap RP, but it could be done more tactfully, and with suggestions on how to improve it. New players seeing this are hardly gonna feel like this is a really welcoming place.

Either that, or if it's really bad RP, then rip them into tattered, bloody shreds and laugh at their incompetence via the means of forum posting.

This half-arsed 'yeah I think it's crap' and 'me too' - neither fosters a good community feeling for new players, nor alternatively satisfies bloodlust

The Surly Cantrian wrote:This is an inevitable result of the skills system we have.

*shrugs*

If we didn't want this, we shouldn't have skills... and surprise surprise, I don't want skills.

With all due respect, skills have nothing to do with bad roleplaying. Newspawn comments about the size of a town, or needing a shovel, are not skill-related, it's just bad RP. Slapping oneself or saying "I'm an expert onion farmer" obviously reference skills, but a comment like "I can't wait to get a crossbow" or "I need a sloop so I can go to XXX to gather salt" or somesuch thing would be just as bad, and would have nothing to do with skills.

Many people have charries who spawn and wait to find out whether they are good at something or not in the natural course of living. If they're really good about it, they won't even notice they're comparatively good at something right away. Many people have charries who choose professions, not based on their skill at it, but because it's IC for them.

In other words, Surly is trying to say that skills=bad RP. There's no causal relationship there. Claiming there is one only confirms your status as a polemicist against skills. It's hard to take what you say seriously when it's clear that your comments are all-too-often distorted by this "skills" prism. And that's too bad, becasue there may be (I think there are) good reasons why skills don't make sense or should be changed; but the existence of bad RP isn't one of those reasons.

This is tedious..

The interface for cantr uses the words awkward, novice, efficient, skillful, expert, etc...

What other terms would you have a newspawn use? Cantrians interact with their universe through the game mechanism, so if a player chose to farm onions he would immediately see that he can gather more with a tool.

You would perhaps prefer some form of contrived ignorance:

"Mmmm its a bit hard farming onions... Hmm I wonder if one could make a kind of digging implment, maybe I will call it a shovel?"

We've had the discussion about the fact that newspawns have innate knowledge, this seems like an excuse to whinge about someone who doesn't RP like you want it done!

1480-0: a man in his twenties says: "Hey if anyone has a shovel, and is willing to rent it to me, I will give 40 percent of the onions I farm tothem. I am an expert at farming it seems, so giving me one would be quite fast and efficient."

Well, if the roleplay purists drive this player's charries out of the other towns where he's at, they are welcome in New Xanth, where they might rapidly rise to the level of Trade Consuls or the like.

I am just so very very tired now of the dumb, the blind, the deaf, the deranged and the downright retarded, I could simply scream. Clones, most of them. Bam Bam...great. Seko...often amazing. But 2-3 Seko clones and 2-3 Bam-Bam clones competing in each town? No, I can't stand it any more.

I have no patience whatsoever with this thread.

(Thanks, Phalynx. I really miss "Phalynx", by the way).

On the question of skills, they mainly knock pre-designed charries, but they also lead to people not knowing for a long period of time what overall kind of character they have spawned. A big and beefy character should be good at mining and perhaps best with a battleaxe or the like. An agile character - maybe a good woodsperson, fletcher and brilliant with a bow. A bright and brainy type - maybe a jeweller and devastating with a dagger, and so on. But there is no logic to the skills as we have them now and they seldom assist character development. Very very poor.

Hahah you made me laugh aloud with those generalizations. But anyway, it's true that the skill system is not logical, it's totally random and has been smashing many well developped characters who already had their history of being good at something and then suddenly the computer says no you can't hunt, or you can't cook, or make clothes. Sucky... Or that one can be awkward at repairing tools but expert at repairing weapons, now that doesn't make any sense at all.

hallucinatingfarmer wrote:As much as I agree with wichita (and Surly even more so), this is deeply bad RP, naming and shaming (even though I've done it myself before now) needs to be done properly.

Some people just don't get it, and this is more likely to make them stop playing Cantr than actually learn to adapt their style. It's all well and good saying it's crap RP, but it could be done more tactfully, and with suggestions on how to improve it. New players seeing this are hardly gonna feel like this is a really welcoming place.

Either that, or if it's really bad RP, then rip them into tattered, bloody shreds and laugh at their incompetence via the means of forum posting.

This half-arsed 'yeah I think it's crap' and 'me too' - neither fosters a good community feeling for new players, nor alternatively satisfies bloodlust

Fair point. At the time I started the thread, I was a bit tired and cranky (surprise surprise ). So here goes for some advice to help spruce things up.

1) Please try to avoid simply repeating the skill descriptor:

"Damn it, I am awkward at fighting!"

This is very annoying IMO. Surly says this is inevitable, but I say it isn't. With a little creativity, a quality roleplayer can add some flavor to the situation and bring the character to life.

Try waiting a few days and get a few rounds of farming under your character's belt. If he is an expert, toss out something like:

"Golly, I sure do enjoy growing these potatoes. Anyone looking for food? I can keep you fed if you can help me out with getting some clothes."

Look over at the expert tailor working next to you.

"I really like that shirt. You are doing some fine work, want to trade?"

Or just *whistles happily as he effortlessly plucks potatoes from the soil* You don't have to emote a novel to get your point across and add some color to your little critter's personality.


2) When testing fighting skills, once again, don't just repeat the skill descriptor out loud. The newspawn self-punching five minutes after spawning thing is a bit irritating, but even this can be done with a little bit more class, I think. I am cool with asking another character to spar, especially if that thing has been going on (and it usually is). Wait for another character to throw a punch and then follow it with:

"Hey, your swing didn't look half bad." -or- "Heh. You expect to hurt anyone punching like that?"

Then you can attempt to show them how it is done, or wait for them to invite you to spar.

If there happens to be an organized guard system in your new home, ask to apply for a job. That will surely get you an IC opportunity to try your skills out.

I personally prefer to wait for a notethief to pop up. You get a free chance in most towns to hop on the posse and beat him down for a free fighting assessment.