Grid system

[Meh]

There has been mention of a grid system and that it will be in 2.0 and that a grid system is good.

But what do you think a grid system is?

How big should the grids be?

The horizon is 22 miles/68 kilomters away.
A person can walk normally at 3 miles/5 kilometers an hour.

I mention it becuase what I think a grid system is may be different than what you think it is.

My assumptions go with the three hour turn as it exists today. If that changes then the idea of having a grid has to be revisited.

When I think of a grid the grids are really small.

You still can't move arbitrailly in a direction. You always have to move towards something. And by something I mean a landmark or somekind. Also a kind of actions-left this hour as a percentage.

Example if your in the town center and you want to farm you have to move to where the food is. You click on the resource and when hour turn change comes you made some progress on famring but a little was deducted for having to walk there. Your coordinates have changed to put you to the closest spot to get what you want.

I belive that characters should keep theie extra good hearing and sight recogniztion of people far away so resource gathering isn't too isolatioing. Or maybe it should be.

Now you want to go back to go in a building on the next turn. Your actions left are back at 100% so you can easily do that since the food is close.

Now your a criminal who wants to hit everyone. You have a limited amount of movement and hitting you can do in a turn since most people will be a little away from town.

Following a path just changes your coodinates. So if you run from town you are now at the maximum distance you can run down the path with the actions left that you had. Someone who had not done anything that hour can easily catch up to you.

When your on a path and the turn changes it uses all your actions lefts (if your travelling at 100%) and changes your coordinates. You can still see town to and click to go back to it directly or follow the path back or go to some of the resources that you can still see. Some of these resoruces may be identical to those in town but just a different potatoes patch then the one that is easy to get to from town.

Now focusing back on people in town. If you drop something it creates a pile on that coordinate. It is automatically known to you and anyone who saw you drop it as the pile you dropped. For someone to move around and snatch everyones pile would take away from their actions left.

Building get build next to interesting things not three steps north five steps east etc. So when a building gets started you are most likely next to a resource location.

As far as fatigue/energy it should effect how quickly your actions left get used up just as it would attack the strength of combat and resource gathering. The reason why I make the speration is that what you can do in an hour gets refreshed every hour but how rested or exhuasted you are at any point is a different thing. If at turn change you are not working on anything or travelling then all your actions left would go towards resting?

[Alcatraz]

David, it sounds like you're trying to program the world. Personally, I think that would be awesome. I don't think it's necessary. The grid system sounds kinda nice, but maybe too complicated. I'm impressed witht he amount of thought you seemed to put into it.

[Meh]

It's more of a 2.0 thing.
We all said we want a grid and that a grid system is coming.
But I don't think we know whether we're all talking about the same thing there.

[Solfius]

I think of a grid system being leterally a grid of square locations, like current ones. You can travel in any of the compass directions, and choose how many grids to travel. Going between each grid would take 1 turn, but there would be no paths, instead you would have to wait for the update, like with projects, so you can change your mind.

If we think 1 turn to travel between a grid, but the size shouldn't be around 5Km square, as that is a large area to be able to hear and see everything. Perhaps 500m squared would be a reosnable size.

Under the grid system I would expect there to be limitations on space, as buildings are built, then less people are able to gather resources, due to lack of space

[Meh]

I think of a grid system being leterally a grid of square locations, like current ones. You can travel in any of the compass directions, and choose how many grids to travel. Going between each grid would take 1 turn, but there would be no paths, instead you would have to wait for the update, like with projects, so you can change your mind.

If we think 1 turn to travel between a grid, but the size shouldn't be around 5Km square, as that is a large area to be able to hear and see everything. Perhaps 500m squared would be a reosnable size.

Under the grid system I would expect there to be limitations on space, as buildings are built, then less people are able to gather resources, due to lack of space

Even with non-path travel, paths are still needed for speed?

Small grids would require the ability to follow someone off path?

If grids are 500m sqaure then there are 272 grids to the horizon.

Should a person be able to pick any of the 272 that they can see without picking a direction? Any further goal would require a direction or a path?

Will each grid be a little easier or harder to travel though?

272 grids represent an area that takes more or less two days to cross on foot. Say that all current locations were a days walk within each other. The amount of grids would be 272 times the amount of current locatons. In those high numbers there would have to be some optimizations on which resources exist. Like wood patches of 3 grids by 3 grids etc.

In any system how would location naming work even if it was dynamic?

[thingnumber2]

quick question that has nothing to do with the previous post...if it were grids, inside a grid, could you move around? for instance, could I move behind a man in his twenties, so I could clobber him with my axe from behind?

[Meh]

quick question that has nothing to do with the previous post...if it were grids, inside a grid, could you move around? for instance, could I move behind a man in his twenties, so I could clobber him with my axe from behind?

What has been mentioned so far has been just about fairly wide spaces.

That is a question of personal space, being undected, and bypassing armor. All of which would add flavor to the game but don't require a system of mapping different that we use today.

Unless the grids or coordinates were so small that you could put yourself there but even then other people would need a chance to react in someway.

[Pirog]

I have really only though about the grid system as a lot more locations and much shorter roads

I'll leave the mathematival parts to those who know that kind of stuff.

My only vision is that large cities can grow to cover several locations (grids) so that they can have a harbor along the coast, some farms outlining the village, perhaos a mine in the nearby mountains or hills...as it is now everyone sticks to the city core and people are farming in the middle of town square...

[kroner]

Personally, I'm not really a fan of the grid system. I think it offers too much freedom. It would make cantr a different game almost completely. Like really just stripping it down to nothing and rebuilding. Maybe it would have the same basic idea, but that would be just about all... This other game might be nice too, but I like cantr and I don;t want to see it scrapped.

[thingnumber2]

Maybe instead of having like, smaller grids inside regular grids, you could just have spaces like, next to building, or next to man in his twenties...so you couldn't hide in small towns, but in larger towns you could just dissapear into the crowds...

[Solfius]

Personally, I'm not really a fan of the grid system. I think it offers too much freedom. It would make cantr a different game almost completely. Like really just stripping it down to nothing and rebuilding. Maybe it would have the same basic idea, but that would be just about all... This other game might be nice too, but I like cantr and I don;t want to see it scrapped.

The staff will not wipe the slate clean unless there is no other alternative, so I imagine that the grid system would be merged into the existing game so that game progress is maintained and we don't need to start again.

[Oasis]

It would be nice to still be able to have roads/paths with a grid system.

Depending on the upgrades made to roads, it currently determines your maximum speed of travel. I would hate to lose this, as would one of my char's who has worked very hard for years to improve the roads in her area.

It is also much more realistic to be walking or driving down a road, that is known to be a road, as opposed to a grid.

I think of a grid system as something unseen by the chars. All should appear as it does now to them, just the mechanics of movement, and ability to walk to different locations within a town should be different.

[Solfius]

well, as for implementing the best way in my opinion is to make existing locations a grid sqaure in the new grid. No way should grids be done if it means losing all our effort thus far.

the only reason i suggested no paths was that I envisaged it possible to travel at a rate of 1 grid square a turn

[new.vogue.nightmare]

Grids, rather than single locations, would be an improvement. That way, two small towns could exist in one area, with their own governments and everything.

[Meh]

I guess I prefer more analog things. A grid of locations is very digital.

I am thinking along the lines of very tiny grids down to personal space contained in one large location of everything. That way there isn't artfical things that arise with a series of larger grid locations.

The game already has to keep track of everyTHING and right now it has to keep track of a small set of everyWHERE. By having the game assign a location or a WHERE to everyTHING, there is no need to keep track of the current set of everyWHERE or a much larger set everyWHERE.

So the question is what is desired from a grid system?

Freedom of movement - You should be able to go off in an arbitrary direction but the rate of speed should be slower than the most unimporved path would be in that area. There should be a mechanism to create new paths for speed. Possibly the action of several people or animals taking the same route creates the base path over time.

Keeping all the existing things (espically paths) - the one thing that I like about the game is that there are paths and advantages to using them. Following an existing path may not be the most direct route but it should maintain it's speed.

Having two towns close together - they should have to be an even distance away. The orginal locations have much infrastructure in them which will keep them alive as large towns. Small settlement should spring up in an uneven fashion whereever a character decides to stop.

Hiding behind buildings - that is a whole seperate thing but in a grid system of abstract locations in a grid it would be hard to determine if you are hiding behing something. If everything had a coordinate and things were set so they were not see though it could be determined. Not easily.

Resources become patches of resoruces so the question of will some resoruces be available a little bit away from town on a path or not on a patch depends on the size of the patch. The primary locations are all within a several patches of resoruces. Each building takes up some room so it would be possible to have to go to the other end of town for certain resources. However town growth would be less clustered considering the freedom of movement.

Paths become a way to speed movement only and are no longer isolated.

Animals have plenty of other places to go besides just in a large location. Which means they could exist in large numbers and be hunted while leaving settlements safe. Unless a herd rolls though town.

Characters, esipically criminals no longer blink in and blink out of a town. They are visible from far away and can be chased and avoided.