A few passing comments as I pass by.

[The Sociologist]

I had been a supporter of an accelerated iron-production rate, and had asked for it numerous times. However, I hadn't expected it to be by so much. Doubling it would have been worthwhile, maybe as far as quadrupling it, or else leaving that to the realm of enhanced mass production. Remember our interesting discussion about mass production? How large machines requiring some minimum number of workers to operate them could simulate a collaborative industrial revolution?

Unfortunately, nobody on staff ever pays any attention to our interesting discussions....

The problems with the current extreme increase are as follows:

1) Without equivalent increases in charcoal production and gas purification, towns and industries based thereon are prejudiced relative to coal-based towns due to the availability of coal drills. Guess who wins out as usual? Yeah, Seatown Forest, of course. Am I surprised? No.

Was any thought at all given to game balancing before this change was made? Was there any discussion? Because many people have spent many days of their lives building up those now significantly prejudiced towns. And for what?

2) In the case of coal-based towns and industries, factory labor is almost eliminated. Remember all that business about encouraging cooperation? Yeah, well we're back to the single senior guy with a bike ruling the world. So long as he can haul all the materials home--a partnership of two charries with bikes is probably a better bet--then they rule. So, what's new?

3) Balance has now shifted radically from those with surpluses of pre-hematite iron to those with large surpluses of raw materials hoarded over many years. Guess who? Town leaders, that's who. Like Seatown Forest with its rumored 200K grams of hematite. Am I surprised? Heh, see above.

In particular, steel production now radically favors those who have accumulated large surpluses of limestone over the years, once again town leaders in established limestone towns. So we see a shift in power from the industrial collaborators and communalists to the hoarders of raw materials. Yeah, the usual culprits. This is a remarkable case where a small change would have gone in the right direction, but an overly large change turned everything on its head.

Jos has a truly unique aptitude for screwing players with the same strategy-based playing styles over and over again. Not to mention the extension to the skills system when he knew by then what we thought of the appalling impact of this "genetics" nonsense on established players. Bakers who cannot bake, tailors who awkwardly spin.... Take my advice from last time and kill yourselves. Watching you all is really soooo pathetic.

Good points over the period I was away:

1) We can now at least see the skills. So those rangers, town guards, etc, who "novicely" hurt people can take up sewing instead instead of pretending they are still rangers and town guards. They know who they are, so let's see them play the game the way it is supposed to be played for a change. I am still vehemently opposed to skills, but since they've been forced down our throats, we might as well see them.

2) Knowing the way this place is run, iron production might have gone down. Well, at least it went up. Could have been worse, I suppose. Bravo.

3) Compass directions now appear on exits. A very very nice change.

4) Apparently, bike carts can now drive on paths. A good change, but it should have been announced.

Unfortunately, I shall be travelling for months to come (this past weekend and maybe a few more excepted) in a part of the world where very expensive satellite links will be my only option. There is just no way I can afford to hit every pigeon, racoon and rabbit in sight every day at a rate of $1.00 US every 6 minutes or so, merely for the purpose of upping my goddamn stupid skills just like in every other silly cheap MUD out there. So I guess this is the point at which Cantr and people like myself begin to part company. I shall try to keep Fran and a few charries going, though.

Cheers.

[Schme]

I entirely agree.

I didn't agree to mass production thing, I thought it too soon, and a number of other things, if you would just read the discussion.

But that suggestion was very (VERY) much better than the situation we have now.

There is not much to say that not has already been said, so I will just say this.

Fix the iron.

Death to the skillbars.

F___ tha Police

[formerly known as hf]

I'm not a great fan of the weapon skill thing either - the thought of having to use a weapon over and over again to increase a 'skill' makes me shudder - I'm just lucky I don't have any characters that ever use a weapon...

Good point about the charcoal too...

I've enjoyed the few discussions I've been part of or read through - it's always nice to see Forum chat lift above whinging and speeling/grammar arguments to something constructive and intelligent -

have fun and keep safe dude

[Schme]

Never mind that last point, actually.

[Anthony Roberts]

I'm going to use my awesome customer service skills to be a real bastard here.

By joining Cantr, you agreed to the Terms and Conditions. The Terms and Conditions state that Cantr is an ever changing game, never to be completed. Some things may or may not be accepted as a whole, however changes will still be made.

Anyway.

Cantr is a Society Simulator. In real life, ways are developed to increase productivity. Sure, jobs are lost, value of materials decrease, etc. This is what has happened in Cantr.

When the Government Mint prints a lot of coinage, the value of the coinage decreases, does it not? So, now that you can smelt Iron and Steel faster, the value will go down. Oops? Nope. No oops. Perhaps that was planned? Anyone think that possibility? Point being, it's simulating real society. You'll have to put up with it.

As well, there should be machines and such to help balance it a bit more for gathering/working on the ingredients of Iron and Steel.

AND, lastly. There has been a lot of talk that the staff doesn't listen to what the players say. You don't have access to our private conversations, but I can assure you that suggestions and complaints are discussed in great detail. We think of every possible good and bad thing, but we all know that's not possible, some things can't be predicted until it happens.

In other words, you complaint is being taken into consideration. Believe it or not, it's the truth.

[Dee]

Go Anthony

[wichita]

Yes, let's take the combat skills out so we can get to a nice vanilla, formulaic, methodical, unimaginative, boring, predictable combat system. For crying out loud that bitch is getting on my nerves! I try to ignore it in general, but at times I really don't know what in the world you people want.

How can this game possibly be a quality simulator if EVERYBODY does everything EXACTLY THE SAME, every character hits for 25 +/- 20% with a sword (I made that number up because I don't have a calculation fetish), every character blocks 15% with a shield, and everybody does every random task exactly the same? That was what motivated me to avoid combat in the first place...because it was absolutley boring. At least now it has some unpredictable flavor to it.

[Schme]

With the fighting skill system, people now have incentive to kill anyone and everyone. And the people who do will gain ever more godlike powers, becoming impossible to take down (as if those guys aren't hard enough).

It says on the introduction page "If your idea of a good game is you leaving a trail of bodies in your wake, Cantr is probably not the game for you." This changes that.

Cantr is a society simulator. In real life, if you shoot a bunch of people with a gun, or stab a bunch of people with a knife, it does not make your bullets do more damage, nor does it make the knifewounds you inflict worse than they were before.

Perhaps, Witchita, you have not taken into consideration that your desire for game fights that you'd consider interesting does not appeal to the other players and, I am sure I speak for many, would change society for the worse. You want crazy hollywood shit, watch crazy hollywood movies. Jackie Chan has tons of them out. Go nuts.

[wichita]

Actually, in real life with the more people you shoot, the better your aim becomes, and therefore your bullets do in fact inflict more damage. It is very realistic. Knowing that the chances of me injuring an opponent with an iron shield is nil was in fact not realistic.

And I do not think that the changes will increase the frequency of combat, but they will enhance it's flavor. It adds the element of unpredictability and therefore encourages strategy.

[SekoETC]

How can this game possibly be a quality simulator if EVERYBODY does everything EXACTLY THE SAME, every character hits for 25 +/- 20% with a sword (I made that number up because I don't have a calculation fetish), every character blocks 15% with a shield, and everybody does every random task exactly the same? That was what motivated me to avoid combat in the first place...because it was absolutley boring. At least now it has some unpredictable flavor to it.

Yes, that's true, but the next step would be making the damage random as well, allowing excellent fighters to hit just a scratch sometimes, and awkward ones sometimes getting lucky.

[DylPickle]

I agree with you Wichita.
I remember some people complaining about how they couldn't be what they wanted to be. Well, that's reality ain't it? I wish I could kick the crap out of everyone, but I'm not all that big... I wish I play the drums too... But I have for a year and still suck.
Then there's the one's that complain about their bad luck, and how some of their chars might suck at something they used to be based on.
Someone used Toast as an example of that... But fact is that with the older system, big ol' Toast could hit people just as well as my scrawny little one armed thief could.


meh.

[Anthony Roberts]

But the fact of the matter is, your scrawny little one armed thief might actually be able to wipe the floor up of bodies, unlike Toast's bulky macho man, because of the random outcome of the skills.

[west]

How can this game possibly be a quality simulator if EVERYBODY does everything EXACTLY THE SAME, every character hits for 25 +/- 20% with a sword (I made that number up because I don't have a calculation fetish), every character blocks 15% with a shield, and everybody does every random task exactly the same? That was what motivated me to avoid combat in the first place...because it was absolutley boring. At least now it has some unpredictable flavor to it.

Yes, that's true, but the next step would be making the damage random as well, allowing excellent fighters to hit just a scratch sometimes, and awkward ones sometimes getting lucky.

Damage already is random, I thought. Relatively.

[SekoETC]

Yeah but if you hit two people that have equal blocking skill and your tiredness wouldn't change, you would do the same damage.

[west]

That's changed, then. It used to be more random. The first time combat changed, anyway, after the flat-rate was abandoned. Unless I'm imagining things.