Cantr II Discussion Forum

Is there any reason that a carving knife takes 250g iron to make?
That seems pretty ridiculous... it weighs almost 3 times as much as a sabre?

Really! How exactly are you supposed to wield that for carving?

It sounds more like a machete for hacking.

Happy?

This is the week for turning all cantr on it's ear, I take it?

Propane...changed drasticly.
A key tool...price cut to less than half.

And people complain about maybe having to go to the trouble of figuring out their building names again...

Nah.

It's just, sometimes, balance is lacked. Propane was proven that there were problems. Fixed.

The Carving Knife... it isn't the size of a Sabre, as stated. Fixed.

Naming of buildings isn't really here yet (And what I mean is, everyone knows the name of the building, for now), but signs have been implemented and are already in game to ensure that people will at least know the location their in. I'm sure sooner or later nametags and signs for buildings/vehicles will be implemented soon.

Yes, but why things change (for the better in all three cases probably) doesn't reduce the fact that they are changing.

To my materialistic mind, your allowing propoane made with wood, and cutting down the carving knife, are much bigger changes than the little dynamic name thing, and much more open to question.

"The only constant is change."

Thanks.

The Industriallist wrote:Yes, but why things change (for the better in all three cases probably) doesn't reduce the fact that they are changing.

To my materialistic mind, your allowing propoane made with wood, and cutting down the carving knife, are much bigger changes than the little dynamic name thing, and much more open to question.

Oh stop whining, Industriallist. You're beginning to sound like me.

All power to Anthony!

The Sociologist wrote:

The Industriallist wrote:Yes, but why things change (for the better in all three cases probably) doesn't reduce the fact that they are changing.

To my materialistic mind, your allowing propoane made with wood, and cutting down the carving knife, are much bigger changes than the little dynamic name thing, and much more open to question.

Oh stop whining, Industriallist. You're beginning to sound like me.

All power to Anthony!

It is actually IC big changes. One of my characters put almost all his posessions, what he had gained over several years, to get a carving knife.
It's value is now devaluated as is the years he worked hard to get the knife. Not whining, just pointing it out.

One of my swedish characters has spent 20 years in search for coal and limestone to be able make iron. Finally found limestone on a new island, no coal but gas. She spent her last iron (remains from pre-hematite era:-)) building a gaspurifier just to find out it needed coal as well. Set out to find new land and possibly coal there. Recently found new land and is very excited to explore it and hopefully find coal there. She won't have to do that now, will she?
Don't say it isn't big changes.

And every change will influence characters and their lives in different ways, not all will be gaining from what some are asking for.

Most changes can be somehow explained IC. For instance, one can claim to have come up with a design for a carving knife which uses less iron then the old design had. Or one could say to have invented a new way of purifying gas.

Surely, I didn't say "Each change to the game causes no reprocussions."

But we must look at the big picture. What if the Carving Knife were left alone? What if propane were left in its inefficient manner? What would happen downt he road?

Sure, carving knives would cost more, however, less of them would exist. With less carving knives, that's less projects that involve a carving knife being created. What if something very useful needed a carving knife. Would you really be willing to waste more than you have to? I understand that some already have a carving knife, and I realise that overall it is a loss, however, the loss is not that great and the benifits in the longrun will outweigh it, surely.

As for propane being changed, that had to be changed without question. If it's unbalanced then why would people be using it in the game, anyway? Mainly because they were unaware of it being unbalanced. In the end, it was changed, however I had left the old method of purifying gas intact, for those that would royally be screwed over if it were removed.

Anthony Roberts wrote:signs have been implemented and are already in game

Wow, I hadn't noticed that *scuttles off to go see*

Anthony Roberts wrote:Surely, I didn't say "Each change to the game causes no reprocussions."

But we must look at the big picture. What if the Carving Knife were left alone? What if propane were left in its inefficient manner? What would happen downt he road?

Um...things would continue as they were? (I'm not counting the propane fix of making it more productive as it reportedly was before...only the making it with wood bit.) The cantr economy would proceed along whatever track it was on?

Anthony Roberts wrote:Sure, carving knives would cost more, however, less of them would exist. With less carving knives, that's less projects that involve a carving knife being created. What if something very useful needed a carving knife. Would you really be willing to waste more than you have to? I understand that some already have a carving knife, and I realise that overall it is a loss, however, the loss is not that great and the benifits in the longrun will outweigh it, surely.

Well, it's not an absolute loss to anyone...just a relative loss.

For instance...yes, the cost of a carving knife creates some pressure against making things that use it, which pressure you've now greatly reduced. And as in a real economy, that will cut down on amount produced, I expect. But is that a problem?

Previously the cost made advanced wood-carving a niche that could support a business despite the game's total balance of productivity, because of the capital required.

Now, if you have iron and any desire for advanced carving products...just make a carving knife, it's cheap enough.

Which is better? I thought the other was more interesting, but...meh.

Anthony Roberts wrote:As for propane being changed, that had to be changed without question. If it's unbalanced then why would people be using it in the game, anyway? Mainly because they were unaware of it being unbalanced. In the end, it was changed, however I had left the old method of purifying gas intact, for those that would royally be screwed over if it were removed.

After you fixed the wrong number, it wasn't unbalanced...this is going to cause some serious uphevals because you've gone and made coal unnecessary to metalworking. That ought to cause some social upsets, collapse of diplomacy, maybe wars...that kind of thing...

Now, I kind of like social upsets...but they certainly don't benefit the development of cantrian societies and economies when brought on by outside forces. Are there any clear benefits to the game-world (not to productivity in-game...that's not inherently good for it) to counter that?

I'm not trying to get you to undo anything...but I don't think you're thinking about these things.

Should it matter if I think about these things?

Not to sound like a hardass, but think about it.

In real life, things do change and cause problems. For example, one company produces an object much more efficiently than another. Or, a country runs out of a certian resource. Let's just pretend that I am the instigator that causes these problems (Ie: Lack of a resource, more efficient way of production, etc)

Wars happen, revolts happen, upheavels happen. How can they be simulated if nothing it given a push, to cause it to be simulated? Sure, there are other ways, but my way gives the benifit of helping to balance the game at the same time.

And I do realise this isn't the best answer to give, it's just the only one I have at the moment