Cantr II Discussion Forum

But Quillanoi isn't really like that.

And it wasn't appointment, he won by the Electorial College. He had the most Electorial votes. It was done this way because counting it by popular vote allowed too much error plus the states needed to have some power, especially the bigger states who had larger populations but while at the same time it gave the smaller states some say in things. So it was a compromise among the first 13 states that the Electorial College be created. You have to remember that when the US was created it was sort of like Europe today and the European Union in that the states considered themselves independent from each other and the Federal Government and a lot of compromises were made so as to keep them all together. It wasn't until the American Civil War that this way of thinking changed but the thing is that many people still think like that today though there numbers are very few these days. Remember that New York is called the Empire State and I bet you don't know why. During the beginning of the US, New York declared war on Masschusetts to fight over the area we know as today as Vermont. New Hampshire came into the fight and it was very bloody. Then the Federal Government came into the mix and resolved the problem by making Vermont it's own state. That was one reason why New York is known as the Empire state as well as the vastness. Up until Texas, California, and Alaska joined the Union as states, New York was the largest and richest state because it had a great port (New York), the most farmland, great timber industry, and great mining industry. I guess New York is still a great port city but New York State itself has given up it's farmlands because the Mid-West and have become mosstly forested land and the mines themselves have since tried up. Timber industry is ad her ein New York because the moderate Conservatives put very high restrictions on logging as to protect the enviroment in New York.

There was once a moment in the Civil War when they were burying the dead after a battle (I believe it was Chickamauga if my memory serves me right), and they got over an argument as to who should be buried where. It had become common practice to bury men by their states but two different regiments from two different states had come to disagreement as to where they wanted to bury their dead. So they called their General (I believe it was General Thomas) over to resolve the problem. He listen to it and then said, "Bury them together. They are all fighting for the same damn country." And that leads to another point that I would like to make and that is that the United States of America was known as 'These' United States of America before the Civil War (and in fact that is how it is written in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence) and after the Civil War became known as 'The' United States of America. That was a big change. And before the Civil War, people from America referred to their nationally as what state they were from for instance, you and I would consider ourselves New Yorkers instead of Americans. It wasn't until after the Civil War that people from the United States began to refer to themselves as Americans instead of the state they were from though they did referred to themselves as Americans during the Revolutionary War but that was more as a bond that they were together in rebellion against Britian and it was later discarded under These United States under the Articles of Confederation and later the US Constitution.

And now that I've rambled on, I'm not really sure what point I was trying to make. Things get too complicated for me to explain and then I find myself going to much in depth on the subject and I lose the whole point I was trying to make. I hope that makes sense.

Gar! I'm not talkin bout no US election. I know he won by the system, it's just the way it works. A good system? not really, but it's the law so Bush wins. Whatevah.
I was talking about the last Quillanoi election. There was only one candidate, Johnathan Russel. I was making a comment about cantr society which has no bearing on RL.

Yes, I was wondering what RK was talking about all that for...

There may possibly be a few constituional changes in Quillanoi at some point, but that remains to be seen.

As I said, I was rambling on and I just mistook what Kroner had written before.

I never actually read that far down

I think, however, that Quillanoi does have he most democratic system in place. It is just unfortunate that it requires a number of active people to be in it for it to work well. That really limits it's effectiveness

A crazy character in Aki Sover had me thinking if there had ever been a Kingdom, or Nobility with knights and of the sorts. As for Queen Tortoise, yeha but any others?

Man, some lady just went by Wuds Wes Paparia and didn't even stop to say hi to poor Pump McStarfish, prophet of Aki the Fierce.

It was the first woman he'd ever seen, too

I would like to point out that a Republic and a Democracy are pretty close to contradictory. By Democracy I mean direct democracy, which historically only works for small populations. Has anyone seen one of those? Or fixed terms of office?

My character tried fixed terms of office.... but the government stalled long before that became an issue. The first elections never happened, much less the second. That made me sad....

In order for a direct democracy in my opinion to work is that everyone has to agree by it. If even one person doesn't agree by it then it really falls apart. That is why I think tight groups that mostly agree on things are the closest to a direct democracy we will get.

Has anyone noticed in Aki Paparia the clan idea that's starting there? I think it is very interesting, and I'm curious to find out if it works, hopefully it does, as my character there is starting a clan...

Prepare to be jumped by people who think using the word 'clan' outside of I don't even know where is a CR breach. Maybe it is, but almost every government is somewhat based off others seen by the player. Most councils probably form because that is what people (= players) know...

Now this is a Goverment style:

The Laws and Rules of the Akidia


I. The Founders
From this night on the group known as the Founders shall be known as the Akidia.
II. Membership of the Akidia
At present only the ****** Great Clans are part of the Akidia as a whole, though any individual of any lineage may become a member. This is subject to change.
III. The ****** Three Great Clans
The ****** Great Clans are Clan Black Rose, Clan ******, Clan ******. These are the founding Clans, and the Leaders of these make up the Inner Circle of the Akidia.
IV. The Inner Circle
The Inner Circle will meet by Conclave every ****** years at ******, or by agreement at the previous Conclave the ******, or any other safe place. Thus the years will be ******, ******, and so.
V. The Princes
The Princes of each domain exist primarily as overseers, to ensure that the Traditions are upheld and to settle any disputes that may arise. "Prince" is the common term for these elders of domains, but it is acknowledged that cultural differences in this term occur.
VI. The Justicars
The Justicars are the Judges of the Akidia. One is appointed for each of the ****** Great Clans. They serve the Akidia for a period of ****** years, and re-appointment is made at each Conclave of the Inner Circle. They are ultimately responsible for upholding the Traditions of the Akidia, and have higher authority than the Princes. Each time they wish to make judgement upon a individual, they must call a Conclave.
VII. Authority
The Inner Circle holds ultimate authority within the Akidia.
VIII. The Conclave
A Conclave may be called at any time, but only by a Justicar. Conclaves are meetings where the Traditions are interpreted, and disputes between individuals are resolved. They are open to all, and those who attend are known as the Assembly.
IX. The Assembly
Members of the Assembly have the right to address the Conclave on any matter if supported by at least two other members of the Conclave. The Justicar serves as the chairperson.
X. The Decision
Decisions of the Conclave are made by vote. Each member of the Assembly has one vote. Once the decision has been made, it is both the Defender's and Accuser's right to challenge this decision.
XI. The Challenge
The Defender may be assigned, by the Justicar, an ordeal or trial to test the Defender. Such ordeals may take minutes or years to complete. If not satisfactorily completed, the officiating Justicar may assign any penalty.
XII. The Counter-Challenge
The Accuser may counter-challenge the Defender to a duel to be fought to the death between the two antagonists. The duel may take any form, but it is usual to assign some penalty to each of the antagonists: such as loss of movement while fighting, or a duel without weapons or protection.
XIII. The Judgement
If no challenge is made, and the Decision requires punishment, it is the duty of the Justicar to pass judgement. This judgement may take any form, and is left to the discretion of the Justicar. Their decisions are encouraged to be harsh, as to deter any future offenders. It is important to remember that the Justicar can only pass judgement in cases where the Defender has transgressed one of the Traditions.
XIV. Challenging a Justicar
The judgement, or action, of a Justicar may only be challenged by another Justicar, or the Inner Circle. A Conclave must be held to resolve the dispute, it is chairpersoned by a member of the Inner Circle.
XV. The Archons
Justicars may have a coterie of individuals to assist them in their work. These individuals are known as Archons, and it is encouraged that they are oath bound to their Justicar.
XVI. The Formation of the Prince
The Prince is elected by the Primogen of that domain. They may only hold Princedom when there are none who oppose their rule or when they have the support of the other Primogen of the city. Without the Primogen sanction, the Prince cannot rule.
XVII. The Primogen
There is generally one leader for each of the ****** Great Clans who are known as Primogen in a domain, though this may not always the case.
XVIII. Elysium and the Pax
A Prince may declare parts of their domain Elyisum. Such locations are subject to the Pax. Firstly no violence of any kind may take place in an Elyisum. Secondly no art may be destroyed. The Pax is punishable by Lextalionis.
XIX. Punishment
The Traditions make up the body of the law of the Akidia. Any individual found breaking them must be punished by the Prince of the domain in which the crime is committed. If the Offender disagrees with the Prince's decision, they may appeal to a Justicar. The Prince has three main punishments at hand. The Lextalionis, the Dominatus, and the Exsilium.
XX. Lextalionis
Those who break any of the Traditions must be punished severely. In all cases where the Offender is guilty outright Lextalionis must be called upon them. The Offender is subject to the Blood Hunt, and when caught is slain. Any of the individual within the domain may join in the Hunt, and the Prince may insist that they do. Any who find the Offender have the right to conduct summary justice upon the outcast. They may also partake of the Offender's property. Lextalionis is the only circumstance, except when killing an unreleased progeny or the duel, where an individual may slay another.
XXI. Dominatus
Where there is doubt in the severity or the act of transgression of any of the Traditions, the Prince is able to impose a lesser punishment upon the Offender. The Dominatus requires the Offender to pledge allegiance to the Prince. Failure to do so will result in the Blood Hunt. Failing this allegiance is also subject to the Blood Hunt.
XXII. Exsilium
This punishment requires the Offender to be exiled from the domain they committed the crime, never to return: subject to the Prince's future decision. If they return to the domain before they have gained forgiveness, Lextalionis will be immediately called upon them.
XXIII. The Traditions
I. The Tradition of Domain
The Prince of each domain holds claim over it, and must be respected. Their judgement upon disputes, and any matter relating to the Traditions, must be accepted by all who reside within.
II. The Tradition of The Progeny
Before taking on progeny, permission from your Primagen and your Prince must be obtained. Failure to comply with this rule will result in Lextalionis to be called upon both the Offender and their new progeny.
A Prince has the right to freely take on progeny in their own domain.
III. The Tradition of The Accounting
One who takes on progeny must assume responsibility for it until it has been released. Any crimes the a progeny commits, the sire is guilty with them.
Release involves presenting the progeny to your own Sire and your Prince. If the progeny is recognised as one of the Clan by both, they are considered neonate.
Until the progeny is released, they have no rights under Akidia Law. Any may kill or take from the progeny, unless they are protected by their sire.
IV. The Tradition of Hospitality
When entering a new domain, which is claimed by a Prince, one must present themselves before the Prince. The Prince has the right to refuse acceptance into their domain.
Those who are not accepted in a domain yet stay, or refuse to follow this Tradition, are known as Autarkis: an individual not part of the Camarilla, and may be subject to Lextalionis.
V. The Tradition of Destruction
Only the Prince has the right of destruction of other individual within their domain, none other. Though this is limited to those who have broken any of the Traditions.
Only the Prince may call a Blood Hunt on one in their domain.
Only the exceptions in rule XX, Lextalionis.
Autarkis have no rights under Akidia Law and thus may be killed.
XXV. As Agreed by the Leaders of the Inner Circle of the Akidia on this Night:

And if I'm wrong for posting that then I'll take my lumps

Just finished reading that in game...very interesting, although slightly confusing, as the terms are different then when whats his face first explained them to me...