Cantr II Discussion Forum

I keep hearing about the characters that control towns by hoarding- and the constant bitching, whining and complaining. So, in response, I will rant back. My characters are now reaching about forty years of age, [I've been playing for over 16 months actively] and some have already. Many of these characters are involved in their community and have been very generous in their nature. A few have influential titles, but they share it with the people around them. Maybe they don't toss sabres around at free, but under the right circumstances, if they have an extra weapon, they'd be more than willing, if they had one (and some do). I'll give you a few examples: one of my richest, and probably the wealthiest who sails around in his ship, as of a few years back, before the changes requiring need for help, came across someone who asked to join him in his journeys. He invested infinite trust in her based on his initial impression and they share all the possessions that he has (everything from iron shields to sabres to iron and steel). In a more recent example, one of my chars that had only one set of war bow and iron shield gave it to their young companion. Hmm, I think the whole:

That's because power used to be one guy in town with a saber and all the keys.

is overstated and a bunch of complete bs. If you don't want to live in those towns, live in other ones! I've made characters every few cantr years (6 older characters, plus 1 at 28, 1 at 23ish and one at 22ish) and I seem to hardly come across towns controlled completely by one individual-lest it was near abandoned with sleepers. I had a character who controlled a town completely by themself for a solid half decade before people started coming in, and based on their traits, my character would share what they had with them based on friendship and trust.

The point I am going to point out is the recent bulge in high quality players unsubscriptions and scaling back- I hear a lot of people begging them not to go- but these same people go bitching about how these people hoard the materials. I don't want to name people, but the contradictions are all over this forum if you read everything, as I try to do.

And some of the people who say they're being victimized by the hoarding, probably do it themself. *coughs*

Finally, this does not mean I do not support the changes, but the same comments on the same old matters, which I don't believe are as common as some forumgoers falsely makes it seem.

As someone said earlier, you can't expect your chars to have everything handed to them on a silver platter when it took another character years to make.

Wow. Come on guys let's not bite each other's heads off here. The forums use to be a nice place where people could pleasently put across their opinions. Now-a-days if you don't agree with someone you get chewed out.

nitefyre wrote:I keep hearing about the characters that control towns by hoarding- and the constant bitching, whining and complaining. So, in response, I will rant back. [...] Hmm, I think the whole:

That's because power used to be one guy in town with a saber and all the keys.

is overstated and a bunch of complete bs. If you don't want to live in those towns, live in other ones!

An interesting rant, but I don't know why my poor little quote was selected as having triggered it.

I was actually trying to make the point that sooner or later a cultureless town dominated by one individual through the purely physical mechanic of controlling the keys and steel weapons will fail, and even more so in these "modern" times than before. I wasn't really bitching, whining and complaining, was I? ...or was I? I do a lot of that anyway, so perhaps I can't tell anymore.

Pirog's point was that loyalty to causes is important, but I went a bit further by saying that cultural reinforcement of shared identity can play a role, including shared written histories, songs a bit of artwork here and there, and so on. This is especially the case if groups want to bind genuinely new player newspawns to their cause. It may not be the only way of binding people to a cause, but it must surely help, not so?

And for the record, my charrie in Alenz Hills did leave. So did several others in towns characterized by the recent sleeping-bigshot syndrome.
.

kroner>

Hehe, I didn't mean for it to be taken quite so literal.
What I meant was that a lot of my characters have personalities and views that I as a person would find wrong and even disturbing.

Much of my attraction towards RPGs is just that, that you play roles competly different from yourself. It can give you a lot of good experiences to play someone totally different to yourself and have to motivate why he acts and thinks as he does by seeing things from different perspectives.

I can of course not say for sure that Industrialist doesn't play like that, but from what he has said himself here I get the feeling that he uses his personal logic and moral to guide his characters.

The point I am going to point out is the recent bulge in high quality players unsubscriptions and scaling back- I hear a lot of people begging them not to go- but these same people go bitching about how these people hoard the materials. I don't want to name people, but the contradictions are all over this forum if you read everything, as I try to do.

I have thought of this too.
Although it is sad to see some dedicated players go it is a great possibility for shifts in power in the world of Cantr...and that can sometimes be a good thing even if the player who quit was a great player.

kroner wrote:

Pirog wrote:The Industriallist>

I think a part of why you and me play Cantr so differently is that you apply your own OOC knowledge and feelings to your characters.

Watch your words.
Do you understand implications of this statement? You're saying that your OOC knowledge and feelings are not applied to your characters. Now I will deconstruct this claim.

Every action that a cantr character performs is dictated by the player. There is no way araound this. Every thought, statement, etc of a character must come from the mind of the player. There can be no other source. Therefore all cantr character knowlegde, personality and feelings are based on player knowledge and feelings. How can player knowledge and feelings not be "applied" if they are the only source of a characters personality? You are not exempt. There's no magical new sentient being that's created when you hit the big smiley face button, only a new partition being added to your own mind.

Not necessarily. Obviously, it comes from the mind, but that doesn't mean you, yourself, believe in it. Most people know other beliefs that aren't theirs, and they may or may not agree with it. But, in a game such as this, they might use those other beliefs or characteristics in one of their characters. Probably at least one of their characters shares the players beliefs, but I doubt all of them.

Nixit>

Thanks. That is how I meant for it to be read

Pirog wrote:I can of course not say for sure that Industrialist doesn't play like that, but from what he has said himself here I get the feeling that he uses his personal logic and moral to guide his characters.

That's precisely the reason I attacked your post. Many times you implicity denounce his playing as being flawed or incorrect, but you don't even know who he plays, so I don't see how you can accurately make any such statements. In fact, if all that you said were true, his characters would be easy to pick out. They would be the people who all acted identically to each other and to the Industriallist on the forums. But seeing as I've never met such a character in game, and yet I know I have been in the same town as his characters and often don't even know it, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that you are wrong.

The Industriallist is targeted so often because most (or at least the most loud ones) of his posts are concentrating on negative opinions, always attacking and claiming people wrong. And in game if you restrain yourself from all writing that doesn't serve a strict purpose, and when you talk you mostly do it in private, it is almost impossible to form any profile of his characters. (Speaking solely on the experience of seeing ONE of them. I do have a habit of generalizing too much.)

kroner>

I disagree with the way he plays or rather see the game, although he has full right of playing as he does, and in my eyes I have very strong reasons for thinking how I do.
Basically we are playing two different games. I can't say that I'm the one playing it right...all I can say is that I (of course) prefer my own way.

Since Industrialist has continued the discussion on a personal level I don't know if he would appreciate that I copy/pasted the things he said here though, so I won't.

As I have mentioned before this is not in any way (at least on my part) a personal disliking. Him and me just seems to be very different.

Based on same discussion...I agree that we're playing different games.

Though not for the reasons the public posts might suggest...

I'm reasonably sure I'm the one playing the game that's supposed to be there
(Obviously not a very meaningful statement)

he's got you there.

The Industriallist wrote:
About the Mac Gregors...I never said they didn't have good RPers. I never said there was any problem with their existance. I did say that they're outright insane, individually and collectively (except any cynical wolves hiding among them...) And that statement I hold to. They kill over an offense that they both invented and have themselves honed and used often...they expect people to worship them and kiss their feet everywhere, while not doing anyone any good...they believe (or pretend to) in an extensive mythology pulled out of Gregor Mac Gregor's malfunctioning mind. This is insanity, some of it criminal. That is my OOC perspective. My character whose knowledge it's based on would have difficulty even thinking something so direct.

Do you see every kind of mythology as insanity then? Could be a quite dangerous point of view. If we extrapollate your opînions on religions as being delusional thoughts by madmen, ...what about Christianity and Islam....Buddhism, Hinduism
Religion and mythology are the founding stones of cultures, no matter how you resist it.
Not that I pretend the Mac Gregor mythology is comparable to any of the current world religions, but it is the general thought. But the polytheistic religions like those of the Greeks and Romans, as well as the Germanic ones are similar to the Mac Gregor one. As I am but one bard, it is inevitable that is yet not as rich as the Norse and Graeco-Roman traditions, but who knows, perhaps one day the regional leaders of the KDS will hold philosophical debates instead of the usual nonsense and a true religion can emerge.

One other thing, why is the Mac Gregor mythology of an afterlife insane, while the Unnamed Ones and others aren't in your opinion, Industriallist?

You are the fascist and racist, Industriallist. Your OOC hatred against the Mac Gregors is not dissimilar to Hitler vs the Jews.

It seems to me that this OOC propaganda in the best of Goebbels' tradition has but the intention to stop people from joining the Clan because of OOC reasons....Almost every thread you reply to ends in a rant about the Mac Gregors.

I personnally don't mind if the Mac Gregors are the rulers of KDS or not, but I'd like to give them a soul and identity...as Sociologist alluded to.

But I agree that isn't a culture that fits into the 21st century. That's why many see it as evil. But if you have more than two neurons, you should try from a Western point of view to understand the Chinese or Japanese culture. Extremely complex...The Mac Gregor way of life is not entirely dissimilar to that of for example the Samurai.

To truly understand the Mac Gregors, you 'd have to make a mix of British etiquette, Celtic and Germanic traditions and some elements from Graeco-Roman and Oriental traditions. If you don't have the broadness of mind to indulge in such an adventure, I can only pity you.

The Industriallist>

I'm reasonably sure I'm the one playing the game that's supposed to be there (Obviously not a very meaningful statement)

And I'm pretty sure my Cantr is a more interesting place

To simplify it and put it from my perspective.
In the world of Hook you are Peter Benning while I'm Peter Pan.

Eat the invisible food, Industrialist...it's delicious!