Cantr II Discussion Forum

I did some calculations regarding the rate at which iron can be created, assuming zero travel time.

No Tools: 27.75g/day
Tools: 33.41g/day
Machines: 36g/day

Before iron became difficult to produce, you could get 50g/day with your bare hands. So now, under perfect circumstances, you can't even make iron at 2/3 of the slowest old rate. With a pickaxe, you could harvest 100g/day. With a Iron Drill, you could get 200g/day. So, with LESS MACHINERY, you used to be ably to make iron at more than 5 times the unachievable modern rate.
To me, anyway, this poses a problem. Before the shift, ten days work could give you what is now an obscene amount of wealth to characters who didn't have the time edge. More than anything else, THIS is why older characters almost always have iron shields. They made them when they were easy to make. Many of these characters haven't made any iron since the shift, because they had no need, and often these characters are carrying little of value besides their extremely expensive iron equipment. Why escapes me. But Cantr works better when people are DOING something. These people should have to carry out some sort of function to maintain their standing as people with optimal or virtually optimal equipment.
Solutions:
Item Degredation (obtain more resources or your equipment won't work as well)
Higher-Tech Equipment (Wouldn't it be great to make someone's day by dealing them 10-15 damage over their iron shield? Make weapons that take resources HIGHER-TECH THAN STEEL or A SHIELD THAT'S BETTER THAN AN IRON SHIELD. How about a lightsaber? Aluminum and diamonds. Gives the highest-tech metal a meaning in life. )[/b]

Shields do not always protect for their full value, so people with iron shields can still get hurt.

The values for the collection should be changed, so they are more balanced, not the extreme lowness compared to earlier values, that would mean new characters would still have to travel to extract iron but it would be more worthwhile.

The point is that there must be a need for cooperation to produce such materials. Therefore it must be difficult to make iron, let alone steel. This makes setting up a society indeed difficult, but, isn't this the fun of the game?

I have to agree with Wim here, it does make setting up a society difficulty, but that's the point, normally setting one up isn't an easy thing, you have to get people to work together to build an effective place. That and 36 is more than 2/3 of 50.

Maybe I did my calculations wrong, but how did you get those numbers, I got some different ones when I did it, but I did it in my head so there is room for error on my part.

It was the old peoples greed that depleted the raw iron sources...they should be ashamed of themselves

Pirog wrote:It was the old peoples greed that depleted the raw iron sources...they should be ashamed of themselves

I vouch for that theory too, , but couldn't you be included in those ranks?

Sure I could
Some of my characters have a lot of iron stashed away!

Oh...wait...

There you go...shame.

wow, I never knew you got that little iron a day, so how rich do you think a guy with 1000 grams of iron would be considered?

Wim van de Griendt wrote:The point is that there must be a need for cooperation to produce such materials. Therefore it must be difficult to make iron, let alone steel. This makes setting up a society indeed difficult, but, isn't this the fun of the game?

Agreed, but...
The point was that:
A) Cooperation wasn't required before, so the world is heavily polluted with people and organizations that build their wealth under the old rules, and now are coasting and squashing anyone who tries to do anything.
B) With no maintenance, you don't actually need any cooperation. You just need to get your hands on the stuff. Once you have a good weapon and a shield, you can just hang around and be powerful, even if everyone hates you and you produce nothing.
C) To be perfectly clear, the problem isn't the difficulty. It's the change in difficulty. If iron had always been this hard to get, it would be annoying, but reasonable. As it is, it's bad. Really bad.

I really find it has a bit of a post-apocalyptic taste to it. Not everywhere. But in some places the only practical way to get good equipment is as relics from the golden age.

Higher tech Weapons:

Alloy Steel

We have nickel and other metals, use them to make stronger, lighter steel for more powerful weapons.

Other than that, the defeat of armor was guns. We don't want guns in Cantr. NONONO. No guns. But stronger crossbows were outlawed by the church for use in war, unless the targets were godless heathens, becuase they were to strong for the armor men could wear. I don't know what crossbows are made with now, my characters don't have any. But a crossbow made with leaves of spring steel would have a hella kick to it.

It is hard to make iron. My characters are fairly old, it hit everyone old and young equally as hard. I've run into several projects that require about 5 steps for the finished project, which is grundgingly fun, but, iron is a necessity. Especially with animals present. My best friend Kelly joined for a short bit, she quit, (may have restarted) when the animals were insane and killed everyone. Iron, is a necessity and I don't think taking a tiny bit away from the reality of making it would hurt anyone. Steel is the new iron.

Some of my characters never were bothered by the change, but for some of my others, they felt the pinch, and it was bad. I don't expect change, it is ultimatly fine the way it is, these are just my thoughts.

Chrissy wrote:It is hard to make iron. My characters are fairly old, it hit everyone old and young equally as hard. I've run into several projects that require about 5 steps for the finished project, which is grundgingly fun, but, iron is a necessity. Especially with animals present. My best friend Kelly joined for a short bit, she quit, (may have restarted) when the animals were insane and killed everyone. Iron, is a necessity and I don't think taking a tiny bit away from the reality of making it would hurt anyone. Steel is the new iron.

Some of my characters never were bothered by the change, but for some of my others, they felt the pinch, and it was bad. I don't expect change, it is ultimatly fine the way it is, these are just my thoughts.

You mean iron is the new steel.

Anyways my characters, only 2 of my progressive characters feel the difference, and they're working on the same technologies levels but at different scales. I unfortunately lost, and continue to whine about, my richest character with about 5kg of iron and a bunch of steel tools a few years ago.

But...the change was a bit drastic.

Iron is the new steel is a perfect example.

People complained about steel and tools that need steel, but we used to produce enough steel to make sabres and bikes and even cars. Iron is not difficult. I have old characters that have more iron than they need and I also have a new character that has started an iron company. Stop trying to make iron and just do it.

My char has 20,000 grams of iron ....Does that make her rich?