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Foreign Language Confusion (split from Less Conflicts)
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:47 pm
by sanchez
sherman wrote:We really need that rule overhaul... Current rules are so confusing :/ At least to new players
I think this discussion is helpful, though perhaps off-topic here. And it needs to stay far from discussion of individual cases and ongoing events.
Here is a summary of the wiki page describing game rules. Which of these are confusing to you?
http://wiki.cantr.net/index.php/Game_RulesYour own Out Of Character (OOC) knowledge may not be used to give your character an advantage over the characters of other players.
You may never use multiple characters together to help each other.
You are allowed only one account, with no more than 15 characters.
You may not plan or coordinate any in game events with other players OOC, even when to log in. It is not allowed to share maps, resource locations, or any other specific in game information with other players OOC.
It is not allowed to discuss events Out Of Character with other players that might influence any ongoing action.
Each character spawns knowing only one language, no matter how many you as a player know.
Before engaging in any explicit sexual or violent roleplay, you must first secure OOC consent from an adult player.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:14 pm
by Alutka
Each character spawns knowing only one language, no matter how many you as a player know.
So if I spawn a Polish char and he/she happens to spawn in an English town, can I play this character as if it was an English char?
Your own Out Of Character (OOC) knowledge may not be used to give your character an advantage over the characters of other players.
As a mathematician I can come up with a dice game which would seem fair, but it really wouldn't be fair and would give me a higher chance to win. Is it forbidden then?
[
Edited by PD- Please avoid promoting such attempts].
I decided to edit it again, because now people will think that I was -promoting- God knows what.
I asked if the rule about having 15 chars applies to everyone or just to people who do not know how to cheat and I mentioned one possible way of cheating. I guess that the fact it was edited answers my question.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:34 pm
by sanchez
Alutka wrote:Each character spawns knowing only one language, no matter how many you as a player know.
So if I spawn a Polish char and he/she happens to spawn in an English town, can I play this character as if it was an English char?
No. Each char needs to roleplay an active language learning process in game for each new language for a minimum of 40 days. This is to mitigate advantages for multilingual players.
Google and other machine translation is not sufficient, and reading an in-game dictionary note does not substitute for interactive roleplay with spawned speakers of the target language.
I personally play the game to learn languages, so I like the idea of multilingual spawns, but for now, they are forbidden.
Alutka wrote:Your own Out Of Character (OOC) knowledge may not be used to give your character an advantage over the characters of other players.
As a mathematician I can come up with a dice game which would seem fair, but it really wouldn't be fair and would give me a higher chance to win. Is it forbidden then?
There is nothing wrong with chars who cheat, only with players who do.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:43 pm
by Alutka
My question was if the -only- language a char knows must be the one I chose during spawning? In simple words.
1. I spawn Polish char.
2. He/she spawns in an English town.
3. I play in English.
4. I RP that he/she leans Polish. (or I even don't bother and simply RP that Polish is too hard for him/her to learn).
I am afraid I can not ask this question clearer.
As for the other thing. I am using my own ooc mathematical knowledge to give my character an advantage in a dice game. So which ooc knowledge can be used and which can't?
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:46 pm
by sanchez
If you choose Polish as the language for the char when he spawns, that's the only language he can know without 'learning' another in game, for a minimum of 40 days.
Alutka wrote:As for the other thing. I am using my own ooc mathematical knowledge to give my character an advantage in a dice game. So which ooc knowledge can be used and which can't?
Mathematics isn't OOC knowledge about the game.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:50 pm
by Alutka
sanchez wrote:If you choose Polish as the language for the char when he spawns, that's the only language he can know without 'learning' another in game, for a minimum of 40 days.
Here you go, that's a rule that should be written somewhere. Because it's not the same as saying that a char can only know one language. I hope I helped.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:51 pm
by sanchez
http://wiki.cantr.net/index.php/Game_Ru ... guage_RuleThe Foreign Language Rule
Each character spawns knowing only one language, no matter how many you as a player know. Your characters may travel or meet characters from other language zones and learn new languages in game. But, even if you as a player have knowledge of a second language OOC, you must roleplay for each character a language-learning process for a minimum of forty (40) days. This Language Rule is to mitigate any advantage for multilingual players. You are, however, allowed during this process to describe the actions of your character using any common language, though your character may only speak words learned in game. It's understood that characters will learn grammar from experience, but some attempt should be made to explore it. Machine translation such as google may aid in the language-learning process, but it is never a substitute for real world knowledge. You may not spawn a character in a language in which you have no working knowledge. Characters who use machine-generated language only are disruptive to native speakers and not allowed.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:53 pm
by Alutka
And where does it say that the only language a char knows should be the language I choose in the process of spawning?
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:54 pm
by SekoETC
One problem with characters who start speaking the language of the spawning location rather than the language they were actually spawned in is that others might not realize they belong to another language group, so if a lone traveler of the same language group arrives in town, people might think it's safe to let him stay for a while because a single character cannot cause newspawns to appear, but without them knowing there are now two characters of the language group, which can cause spawns in their own language. These spawns will feel alienated because they're in the wrong environment, but they cannot die instantly, so they remain as sleepers and attract even more newspawns. Whereas if your character had been speaking Polish from the spawning, as an act of language group purity most towns would arrange them a ride to the nearest town that does speak that language.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:56 pm
by sanchez
Alutka wrote:And where does it say that the only language a char knows should be the language I choose in the process of spawning?
Every time you create a new char, you are shown the following text, just above the language selection list:
You may choose a language other than English to play your character in if you're at least somewhat fluent in that language. Your character is not allowed to speak, read, write in or understand any other language than the one you registered him or her with, unless (s)he encounters speakers of another language in the game and you actively roleplay a language learning process for a minimum of two years. So choose wisely.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:59 pm
by Rmak
Well the rules being quoted in various discussions seem to vary or cannot be linked to the rules list. But I remember your statement that players should not know rules so they can break them which is a good example of mindset.
At the end of the day Jos loses 100 euro a month and the figures goes up and up while player numbers fall. That's the bottom line and it's his pocket that gets burnt.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:24 pm
by Alutka
Thanks Sanchez. I still say that this rule should be posted somewhere. Apparently no one really reads this communicate, as there was a discussion on Polish forum about it and some players seemed to think that it is fine to play in other language than the one chosen while spawning, and others were unable to tell them which rule says it's not allowed.
Re: Less Conflict?
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:29 pm
by the_antisocial_hermit
It would be simple enough to add it to "Each character spawns knowing only one language, no matter how many you as a player know." on the wiki page.
Something like:
"Each character spawns knowing only the language the player chooses when making the character, no matter how many you as a player know or where your character spawns."