Let's talk about 20-year-olds

[iavatus]

It's like the difference between newbie, noob, and nub. Very, very contextual and subtle.

Newbie, to me, is someone new to the game, but trying to learn. Will make mistakes, do dumb things, but doing their best to learn. Course, some people are a bit dopey and need to get the lesson a few times to learn, but there's still that genuine effort. Most newspawns are this. I like newbies, cause they're a little dopey but mean well. No, stop repairing that bone knife..... fine, go ahead. I'll just bite my tongue.

Noobs, know nothing, expect the world to be tailored for their benefit, bitch, moan, break things for no reason, rarely learn and eventually just abandon the game when it's the fun becomes too hard to find. They are the loud, annoying, steal the animal feed and flee to desert loling sorts. While loud, they don't last long. I like noobs, they might graduate into real people, and shake things up. A noobs repairs a bone knife for extra stabby power, lol.

Nubs are newbies who've graduated a step or two. Treated with affection, and mild condescension with a smidge of pride. I like nubs, they know enough to be useful, or dangerous, but still have that youthful enthusiasm to shake things up. A nub repairs a bone knife to seem like a newbie, and get put in that special box that, if apologetic afterwards, lets them get away with a lot of things.

[Lapallanch]

You know, I'm not surprised people are suspicious of newspawns You know why?

I was bored the other day and decided to spawn a thief character to see how things worked out. So I spawned, and a few seconds later, I grabbed everything on the ground (even a domesticated chicken) and scooted. So of course 'em peeps come chasing after me and I recall them moaning about how they wished that they could just live in peace and harmony and not get raided by thieves every few days. I pitied them and repented. Even so, they're still suspicious.

Anyway, I think it's actually sensible for people to distrust newspawns. I myself would have been cursing under my breath if I was one of those people trying to catch the thief. I mean, I just want to be left alone, enjoy society and cook food and craft tools, and not get all that stuff taken away by a thief every once in a while.

Sorry if I caused any trouble, by the way

[iavatus]

Take the time to do something right, rather then just running away with the few things lying about (although the chook stealing is pretty hilarious). At worst, you entertain and motivate.

[LittleSoul]

It's like the difference between newbie, noob, and nub. Very, very contextual and subtle.
Nubs are newbies who've graduated a step or two. Treated with affection, and mild condescension with a smidge of pride. I like nubs, they know enough to be useful, or dangerous, but still have that youthful enthusiasm to shake things up. A nub repairs a bone knife to seem like a newbie, and get put in that special box that, if apologetic afterwards, lets them get away with a lot of things.

Fun fact. The word nub is used in the American Navy to describe a person who is almost completely useless because they know absolutely nothing.

[Axiom]

You know, I'm not surprised people are suspicious of newspawns You know why?

I was bored the other day and decided to spawn a thief character to see how things worked out. So I spawned, and a few seconds later, I grabbed everything on the ground (even a domesticated chicken) and scooted. So of course 'em peeps come chasing after me and I recall them moaning about how they wished that they could just live in peace and harmony and not get raided by thieves every few days. I pitied them and repented. Even so, they're still suspicious.

Anyway, I think it's actually sensible for people to distrust newspawns. I myself would have been cursing under my breath if I was one of those people trying to catch the thief. I mean, I just want to be left alone, enjoy society and cook food and craft tools, and not get all that stuff taken away by a thief every once in a while.

Sorry if I caused any trouble, by the way

I did this with a bunch of characters when I first started playing and was still excited by the prospect of petty thievery, but I've graduated to more sophisticated hijinks now. You should see if you can get up to some more elaborate trouble, or at least take something really good like a motor vehicle or rigged ship.

[Lapallanch]

As I said, I was just bored, since everybody else in my main character's village were sleeping. I just wanted some quick action, you know? I didn't want him to become a professional thief. But honestly though, trust of newspawns have fallen drastically in that little village after my hit-and-run theft

If possible, you could always give me some tips on how to become a more professional thief. How to convince people to give me crowbars, et cetera

[Wolfsong]

If I were you, I'd have taken the chicken and nothing else. A shield, some food... And just the chicken.

"If you guys don't let me leave here... The chicken gets it."

[Slowness_Incarnate]

I have actually observed a newspawn thief steal dung and a hawk. No feed for it..and run

[FiziKx]

I've given up distrusting of newspawns. If they act stupid and steal stuff then I'll just rally the gung-ho, witch hunting population and have them track down the stuff that they took. I think calling people to action after having suffered a loss makes my characters more endearing, anyway, so either you gain a newspawn who has fun and sticks around or you make better friends with the people in the area. It's win-win.

[Kyriel]

... or you make yourself sound utterly ridiculous calling for the head of a newspawn that took pants, dung, or a chicken.

[FiziKx]

^Still more fun than doing nothing in-game hahah. But seriously, there's obviously a line

[iavatus]

I hope this discussion has given you a better idea of the game, Father Brian.
* We're not all distrustful of newspawns (and the ones who are, might have decent RP reasons)
* We do our best to engage our new players and help as much as possible (without giving them everything they could ever want for nothing (but if we could give them everything they want, then it's up to them to go out and find a bigger want list, or use those for things))
* We're not all perfect, most of us have a sense of humour, and most of us have seen dozens and dozens of new spawns pop up for a day or three, then stand around waiting to fill a grave. So yes, sometimes we'll joke about things that seem disgraceful from a realworld perspective, because in Cantr, it's a different style of morality. 20 year old dies in the world? Tragedy. In cantr? Time to bust out the shovel, say a few words and crack jokes at the dead guys expense. Why not? He's not around to hear it, but we really wish he was. Then we could scream and whack him with the shovel for being a zombie, calm down, and have some pie. Pretty much the ideal cantr day, really.
* It takes time to get to know, and trust, and like a person. Now am I talking real world, or Cantr? Because this is one area that you seem to be running afoul of, the distrust newspawn viewpoint. Some people are lazy, and don't want to play with new people. Fine, find somewhere and someone who does. The walking will suck, but treat it as an opportunity to think about and shape your character. Then when you return in several years with everything you could ever want, or the town could really use, you can have the glee of treating them the same. Or being the bigger man and with a modicum of respect, while pointing out how much more another town helped you.

So stick around. It does get better.

[Marian]

Everyone's chars were newspawns at some point. Yes, some of our chars might distrust them, but like iavatus said, there's often an IC reason for that and a very natural thing. Our chars move past the newspawn phase, and be it through patience, hard work, or cleverness become responsible, respected citizens...and then start look down on those who seem incapable or unwilling of doing likewise. Much like we all used to be teenagers IRL but utterly loathe them with every ounce of our being now. (j/k ...mostly)

A socially adroit newspawn can often move up in the ranks and gain respect just as fast as an older character. If they only have some kind of goals or direction, make plans and know exactly what they need and can be convincing about it, it doesn't take too terribly long to make the first steps happen, as far as getting tools or whatever. It's true it does depend quite a bit about the situation and the characters they're around, but they usually have the opportunity to change all that if it's not working out. Or of course sometimes, 'not working out' itself can make for some good RP opportunities and help to develop the personality in interesting ways, even if it means they're lagging behind on the things-having more than they'd like.

[hyrle]

I haven't chimed in on this thread yet and - after reading all of it, I've been contemplating how to respond. I joined Cantr a relatively short time ago compared to a lot of players (2 years) and I made the wonderful "mistake" of spawning 15 characters. I even have some relatively young ones.

What I found when I joined the game is that there are a variety of attitudes towards newspawns, and that makes sense... there are a variety of characters in the game. Some are good, some are evil. Some are greedy, some are generous. Some are wakeful and active, some are sleepy. So a variety of ways to treat newspawns should be expected. Some of my newspawns were trusted near immediately and given lots of things. Some of my newspawns were made to earn things but at least they had the opportunity. But the worst ones were the ones who spawned in towns with no opportunities. They left those towns and found greener pastures. And that's okay... it should be expected that some town leaders aren't going to be good ones. Some are going to be greedy. Some are going to be sleepy. And some are simply too poor to offer much.

What I found, when playing so many characters, is that the best town leaders were 1) awake and 2) provided opportunities. Opportunities for their newspawns to earn things. Opportunities for visitors to trade fairly and honestly. Opportunities to prove themselves loyal to the town. Opportunities for them to be able to pursue their own goals and ambitions (usually in exchange for helping the town a bit). I now play four town leaders and that's the main goal behind all of them - find ways to provide those they lead with opportunities. Some of that do so through a DOW-based economy, some through communal sharing (ask me and I'll decide if I should give you yet, or whether I'll set a task for you first) but all have the same end goal: Build a town with ample resources to be able to help others reach their goals and establish a system of fairness.

[Friar Briar]

the best town leaders were 1) awake and 2) provided opportunities.

The best town leaders are the ones who tell you and show how much they appreciate your hard work.