Cantr II Discussion Forum

Well, it was difficult to phrase a title for this. I guess I have a bunch of questions in mind, like -
- What kind of characters do you wish you could play, (even if you might not have the skills or balls for it)?
- Of which kind of characters would you like to see more/interact with?
- What kind of communities do you wish existed in Cantr?
- What kind of communities would make an interesting roleplaying environment for you?

I think it would be interesting if there were towns with strict hierarchies, maybe even including slaves. If there were nobles or royalty who were played by active people, but would concentrate on roleplaying and refuse to work on projects. Servants or slaves would take care of cooking and caring for them. It would be good if people took their status for granted and took pride in it instead of people constantly having to deal with suicidal/runaway slaves.

I'd like to play a slave character but it would require an active master. I've done it before and it gets boring when you have to keep yourself busy because no one is awake to tell you what to do. Often I spawn characters with the back thought that this would make a good slave, but people are always protecting them, or they're too strong to be dragged. Often the characters who have the least favorable personality end up being dragged somewhere or locked up.

There could also be more pirates, although nowadays it's dangerous with all the radios. It pretty much sucks that usually in a pirate encounter, one side must die. It might be different now with near-death-state.

Another interesting thing would be a penal colony where criminals could interact with each other but couldn't get off the location. It could even be a whole small island. Likewise there could be an insane asylum if there were enough mentally ill characters put in the same place. That could also make interesting interactions.

Sometimes I've thought that it might be interesting to play another blind character like I did long ago, but it's very limiting. It would be even more limiting to play a character who's both deaf and blind, with no way to understand their surroundings.

I've also played illiterate characters, but no one ever takes the time to teach them how to read. So if there were more people ready to play teachers, that would be good.

I'll put is simply - I wish newspawns didn't spawn with their player's modern values and sensibilities. I wish they would spawn, look around, and think everything they see, be it a thriving democracy, or an oppressive dictatorship, as completely normal. I sometimes think that my characters were the only ones that ever asked "what's a wedding," or didn't automatically exchange rings with their mates.

If we had "blank-slate newspawns," everything you mentioned, Seko, would be more prevalent, because every group/leader in the game would have an equal chance at growing their numbers through spawning, not just the communities that are "good" or "fair" and imo are vastly over-represented in Cantr compared to reality.

I don't know why I've never thought of that. I'm doing that from now on Doug. That sounds amazing.

Doug R. wrote:I'll put is simply - I wish newspawns didn't spawn with their player's modern values and sensibilities. I wish they would spawn, look around, and think everything they see, be it a thriving democracy, or an oppressive dictatorship, as completely normal. I sometimes think that my characters were the only ones that ever asked "what's a wedding," or didn't automatically exchange rings with their mates.

If we had "blank-slate newspawns," everything you mentioned, Seko, would be more prevalent, because every group/leader in the game would have an equal chance at growing their numbers through spawning, not just the communities that are "good" or "fair" and imo are vastly over-represented in Cantr compared to reality.

I certainly agree, and to be honest my characters are often guilty of having my values and sensibilities. It's a role-playing game, which means that you play a role that isn't you, and that it isn't real life. Someone might be the nicest, friendliest, most peaceful person around, but that doesn't change just because they play a sociopathic mass murderer or a dictator.

I would like to play characters who have real value in a community, not being a/the leader. Someone like the village smith, -tailor, -librarian, or -guard. Those roles exist within Cantr, but only by roleplaying them, not by necessity. Anyone can fulfill the task.
Social structures within Cantr are very simple, mainly because every single character is pretty much self-sufficient. If interdependencies between characters would exist (cooperation being necessary for reaching some higher level goals) i think more interesting social structures will evolve.

i wish id one day spawn something else than outsider/traveller and finally would settle in one of towns

Doug R. wrote:I'll put is simply - I wish newspawns didn't spawn with their player's modern values and sensibilities. I wish they would spawn, look around, and think everything they see, be it a thriving democracy, or an oppressive dictatorship, as completely normal. I sometimes think that my characters were the only ones that ever asked "what's a wedding," or didn't automatically exchange rings with their mates.

It may be the worst when it comes to romance and sex. Where are the societies with arranged marriages? Non-romantic, homoerotic "coming of age" ceremonies? Unequal patriarchal/matriarchal societies?

Not that it doesn't happen at all, but I would like to see more characters that challenged stereotypes rather than sought to emulate them. Butch gay males (and effeminate straight ones), characters right on the fringe of having a diagnosible disorder (or disease, or multiple of either) instead of displaying every symptom listed in the DSM, characters that struggle more with their sexuality or gender identity instead of having "always known", characters that struggle with their faith or political beliefs and change over time, aggressive characters or abusers who feel genuinely terrible for the way they act but struggle to change themselves - or heck, almost anyone who struggles against and tries to change their own tendencies instead of always being the person that they want to be.

Doug R. wrote:I wish they would spawn, look around, and think everything they see, be it a thriving democracy, or an oppressive dictatorship, as completely normal.

I do this to a degree. My newspawns start with a lot of curiosity about their spawn town, whatever it is, and don't start out with strong beliefs or concrete plans of their own for the first few days unless events or other characters lead them to it. Even if they ultimately reject whatever's going on there as they develop their own views, it's never without stewing over it a little while so there's ample time for more established characters to try and bring them around to their way of thinking if they want to make the effort.

In response to the OP, I've always thought it would be interesting having a character that was a doctor or a lawyer, but I've never seen any place that would offer a good opportunity for it. The latter would require a steady source of criminals that were actually interested in their character's survival and a town with laws that gave these people a right to some kind of trial...either that or a large enough active population that other little squabbles might break out that require some kind of mediation. While with the former, sure I could easily carry around my little apothecary kit and put together an infirmary with cots and an apothecary table and a chest full of cloth for 'bandages' and grow herbs and things, but since the only useful part of entire job could be performed by any random person handing out a little healing food, it would all just be wasting time playing pretend.

But the main thing I've always wanted to see, that would again require a large population, is a city that actually feels like a city. Not just one or two old people sitting fat and comfortable on a ridiculous pile of inherited tools and resources and, if they're awake at all, portioning things out bit by bit like they're handing treats to an especially good dog, but people with active plans and agendas of their own who take their roles seriously, using smooth talking or leadership skills to continually strive to either expand their town and their power...or just to hold onto it. (Good old fashioned tyranny has its place too, but IMO limits many kinds of RP, as in a situation with zero balance of power lots of interesting developing scenarios just get nipped in the bud with someone getting dragged into prison or driven out of town.)

Instead, let's say in this fantasy scenario that the government is limited to punishing criminals and proposing changes to the laws and hiring guards and improving town infrastructure and minting coins...so in this town there are specialized businesses that actually function, and merchants vie with each other and with the town leader for workers and favorable trades. A particularly successful business man or woman might hold nearly as much power as the government, and the government definitely doesn't have all the keys to their privately owned buildings.

There are guards loyal to the town and guards loyal to their employers, and other factions of all kinds, worker's unions, craftsmen guilds, religious orders, corporate spies, you name it...as well as regular people just going about their lives, maybe spending a few days unwinding in a favorite bar watching a band play after a long shift at the smelter. A Byzantine tax code and laws making various things minor crimes would be nice too, to give me a chance to play that lawyer character and let petty crime in general thrive.

I've seen exactly two...maybe three places so far that seem to want to encourage people to start up their own businesses instead of just getting a job working for the town, but population is and probably always will be the limiting factor. You would need 15 or 20+ active people to even begin to make something like that work.

And that makes me sad.

Excellent replies. The arranged marriage thing was especially interesting. If people could understand that no one can be forced to play sex, and it's completely possible to rp a marriage without having to go into details, that could work out.

The 'hippy' forest was awesome. Peace man, free lovin', hemp smoking, ban the violence and hunting, take a joint and cool it, etc was so well done one time, but then the 'chilled out', peace loving dude chased a newspawn thief with so much angst I was a bit stunned. Still a different experience for me.

The Blitz Forest West with Dunja Peachblossum was another credible town type for me too. She had a no hunting rule in a forest and only roasted carrots that were doled out in small batches. Sleepers (those who didn't talk in a day) were dragged to a mausoleum so they could die amongst the bodies (to save burying them and feeding them and so we didn't have to watch them die.) There was no map available and small rewards were given those who were cheerful and worked. It was all made believable and a definite culture existed. I was sad that the Blackrocks had killed her off and her 'twilight zone' was no longer.

The Emerald Republic - hated I know - but it had a history and a purpose and had created a definite culture. Also it was eerie and the characters around mine made chills up and down my spine.

I want to play a crazy old woman who ... wait... I may do that if only I can transition one I have to that state.

I wanted to play a gangster moll, and did have one who let the man be the man and was heading that way but it never happened. (maybe needed drugs or alcohol to broaden) I see Naedell Blackrock as a typical 'gunmoll'.

I wanted to sell poseys of flowers from my cart and sing sweetly and marry a coal miner.

I met an entertainer who traveled and took donations for his acts, but he gave it up before sleeping to death. I just wanted mine to learn to juggle and walk on stilts.

I wanted to be a court jester.

I want one in a rock band (folk will do) that gets known island wide and is harassed for autographs.

A witch doctor who uses a cantrified blend of voodoo and superstition.

Lastly I really wanted to capture the pile!

Marian wrote:Instead, let's say in this fantasy scenario that the government is limited to punishing criminals and proposing changes to the laws and hiring guards and improving town infrastructure and minting coins...so in this town there are specialized businesses that actually function, and merchants vie with each other and with the town leader for workers and favorable trades. A particularly successful business man or woman might hold nearly as much power as the government, and the government definitely doesn't have all the keys to their privately owned buildings.

There are guards loyal to the town and guards loyal to their employers, and other factions of all kinds, worker's unions, craftsmen guilds, religious orders, corporate spies, you name it...as well as regular people just going about their lives, maybe spending a few days unwinding in a favorite bar watching a band play after a long shift at the smelter. A Byzantine tax code and laws making various things minor crimes would be nice too, to give me a chance to play that lawyer character and let petty crime in general thrive.

I feel exactly the same, and have a character trying to set up this kind of place, they've been at it for ten years without much success, but fingers crossed for them!

RedQueen.exe wrote:

Doug R. wrote:I'll put is simply - I wish newspawns didn't spawn with their player's modern values and sensibilities. I wish they would spawn, look around, and think everything they see, be it a thriving democracy, or an oppressive dictatorship, as completely normal. I sometimes think that my characters were the only ones that ever asked "what's a wedding," or didn't automatically exchange rings with their mates.

It may be the worst when it comes to romance and sex. Where are the societies with arranged marriages? Non-romantic, homoerotic "coming of age" ceremonies? Unequal patriarchal/matriarchal societies?

Not that it doesn't happen at all, but I would like to see more characters that challenged stereotypes rather than sought to emulate them. Butch gay males (and effeminate straight ones), characters right on the fringe of having a diagnosible disorder (or disease, or multiple of either) instead of displaying every symptom listed in the DSM, characters that struggle more with their sexuality or gender identity instead of having "always known", characters that struggle with their faith or political beliefs and change over time, aggressive characters or abusers who feel genuinely terrible for the way they act but struggle to change themselves - or heck, almost anyone who struggles against and tries to change their own tendencies instead of always being the person that they want to be.

This. A thousand times this. We need more characters that break away from the stereotypical mould. I haven't played as long as many of the people here, but I started a year ago (on and off since, but heck), and I don't think I've ever seen a character that goes through much of a personal struggle. I'm also guilty of this, but man. This topic sure is inspiring xD

RedQueen.exe wrote:It may be the worst when it comes to romance and sex. Where are the societies with arranged marriages? Non-romantic, homoerotic "coming of age" ceremonies? Unequal patriarchal/matriarchal societies?

Of course, to make something like this work, there'd have to be a character that just naturally, without OOC influence, got it into their head somehow that arranged marriages etc, are the way a society should be run. And then either convinced others to go along with it, or founded a town on their own and convinced people to stay and follow along with it all. So, interesting ideas, but easier said than done.

oddedd wrote:I feel exactly the same, and have a character trying to set up this kind of place, they've been at it for ten years without much success, but fingers crossed for them!

Nice to know it's not just me then! I've been dreaming about something like that since probably around the time I first started playing. I've got one of mine making an attempt too. It's not as elaborate as all that, but, baby steps.

i think the first way to get it would be to ... get a bit more tolerant
too many times i have seen people killing one another (without even batting an eye) over something as trivial as name of building/vehicle or if carrots are better than potatoes (or something like that)

kaloryfer wrote:i think the first way to get it would be to ... get a bit more tolerant
too many times i have seen people killing one another (without even batting an eye) over something as trivial as name of building/vehicle or if carrots are better than potatoes (or something like that)

Actually this is one of the few things you do see big differences about between towns. Some will kill over nothing, and some won't kill over anything. I've always thought the latter (or something close to it if not quite that extreme) allowed for more variety in RP, even though 99% of Cantr governments still boil down to a dictatorship, just some more benevolent than others.