Slow-paced?

[Snickie]

I'm probably going to piss off some people here, but I don't care.

I'm noticing that peoples' arguments against this suggestion are that if dragging moves to a tick-based system, it would take longer to drag people, and with insta-dragging you could be halfway across the island or down the road or wherever by that point. In general, insta-dragging is FAST and EFFICIENT and, ultimately (by the posts of the people) DESIRED.

And yet, many of the suggestions I've seen here call for mechanisms to be made to fit the "slow-paced" nature of the game, particularly combat-based mechanisms. Tick-based dragging would help with that at a moderate level. But now that it's been suggested, people are against it, essentially because it's slow-paced.

Problem?

Is slow-paced really what the players want now? Is this why we can't agree on a new combat system? On certain new/revised mechanisms or features? It's become more and more difficult to play this game if you can only get on every-so-often because there are so many active players who do a lot of talking and moving in a short period of time. Has it consequently driven away the slow-paced players or attitudes from the game?

What is it we really want now from Cantr, in regards to the pace of the game, mechanics, etc.?

[SumBum]

This probably should go in the suggestion thread but I think I already posted similar there.

The argument against a tick-based dragging project is due to the "friendly" dragging that occurs often. Yes, tick-based dragging would be great to prevent (and would probably make obsolete) kidnapping, but it would be a major inconvenience to daily life when you just want to shove your friend into a car so you can go traveling, etc. Again, I push for a checkbox option for people to choose who can instantly drag them anywhere. If it's someone you trust, your char would not "fight" being dragged by them.

Once instant "friendly dragging" is in place, then I'd support something that made other dragging possibly take more time. I would like to see the system remain as it is now with friendly dragging added and tick-based dragging for anyone who isn't strong enough to instantly drag someone. If you have 10 people dragging one person, it shouldn't require a tick for them to move that individual.

Tick-based dragging would make it possible for someone weaker to work toward moving someone, though. There were times I definitely could have used that when traveling with only one other person through deserted towns and I had to wait on the other player to get online to load their char in the car.

[Hedgedhogst]

Regardless of the fact that I'm on Cantr for at least six hours of every day, staring at the screen, begging for someone to 'wake up' on at least one of my fifteen characters, if just for a moment, I'm actually more than happy with the slow-paced style, and will always be willing to encourage maintaining that style.

I've been in towns where characters are awake just long enough to spew out one, choppy sentence before going silent again. Yes it can be annoying, especially when we're half way through a large trade... But I realise that I'm playing with real people, with real lives, and respect the fact that some players have responsibilities.

What I'd hate to see, is the speed of cantr mechanics increasing. I'd hate to see that player, who only has a chance to be on for fifteen minutes a day, trying to keep up with up to fifteen characters who's entire lives could have altered while she was babysitting her sisters baby, or whatever. As you say, Snickie, that would drive the slow paced fans from the game.

From my personal experiences, soley my own opinion, the majority of players who seek fast, action packed games, get bored with the fact that they've explored everything and tried everything within weeks of playing, and just hit the unregister button in search for something else. Those happy with a slow paced, easy-going game such as cantr, will stick around for many years.

Many of the suggestions that alter the 'speed' of cantr, are getting mixed and almost equal responses from both sides. The issues aren't always so much the suggestion itself, but finding that middle ground that everyone can 'settle' for.
It's a little like negotiating for a loan. You ask for 10k, the bank manager offers a measly 5k. After a while of discussing and considering, you both shake hands at around 7.5k.

In that situation, you can only expect to reach an agreement that everyone is 'okay' with. Whatever will delight one person, will seriously irritate someone else. In regards to the new drag system suggestion, it's only been in existence for an hour. Switch to decaff for a day.

[Snickie]

I was originally going to post this in the suggestions thread, but when I saw where my short essay was getting, I figured it'd better go in the General Discussion category because it opens up some broader discussion.

[SumBum]

Sorry for not being clear about that. I meant that MY post should go in the suggestion thread, but I didn't really introduce anything that I didn't say there anyway. I understood that your post was for discussion, Snickie. My reply was an attempt to address why there seem to be contradicting arguments sometimes as people try to find the balance between slow-paced, convenience, safety, etc.

[Rumaan]

I prefer the game to be relatively slow paced. The problem with your post is that you are imagining the player base as a monolithic body. Each player wants something different from the game. There are some weak areas in the current combat system but I would say the problem is not so much in the combat system as with different expectations of players. And Cantr by design attracts players with a wide range of expectations.

Your suggestion is aimed at making dragging take longer. But unfortunately, the way I see it, your suggestion only widens the gap between the power players and relaxed players (by the way, the two groups are not mutually exclusive).

[lulkoek]

I'm a rather slow-paced player, but I find that being in a very active colony takes away my desire to pose at all... I can't catch up anyway, so why bother?

[Mr.Wabbles]

Is this Cantr? How to play?

I walks the road to new towns. How long?

[curious]

Slow-paced, for me, represents a situation in which players/chars don't suffer a significant penalty for not being able to log on.
It's a generic thing, and doesn't preclude the overall 'slowness' being punctuated with rapid interactions.

I do like the idea of a check-box to allow friendly/non-resisting dragging, and the possibility that a tick based dragging be implemented, for bodies, obect piles and people.

[Rumaan]

I'm a rather slow-paced player, but I find that being in a very active colony takes away my desire to pose at all... I can't catch up anyway, so why bother?

Same with me. Many times I just hide 100s of lines of events without reading. And because of that those chars also become a little inactive.

In general, at large towns I try to whisper instead of talk out loud whenever I can, as a courtesy to other players.

[Fingersmith]

Same with me. Many times I just hide 100s of lines of events without reading. And because of that those chars also become a little inactive.
In general, at large towns I try to whisper instead of talk out loud whenever I can, as a courtesy to other players.

I am against wispering myself. Wispering only generates hundreds of lines to the other players saying
'You see A talk to B'
'You see B talk to A'

At least being able to hear what those chars say gives your char a chance to interact at some point or plan a way to interact later on if you are not awake at the time.

I only use wispering when I actually have something to say that my char doesnt want the other chars in town to hear.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I dislike whispering a lot more than lines of text that don't pertain to me. Though at least now we can disable whispers from lighting up the character and make a filter so that we can get rid of the whisper clutter from our feed so we can see what else is going on.

[Chris]

Is slow-paced really what the players want now?

No. For example, doubling travel length would make the game pace slower. I think that would hurt, not help, the game. On the other hand, recognizing that players are not attending their characters 24/7 is essential. Cantr is not like most online games, where your character disappears when you aren't playing. If I say to your character, "Hello Snickie!" in WOW, I would expect a reply in a few seconds. In Cantr, I would have to wait hours, maybe even a day or two, for a reply. Whether I want Cantr to be slow paced is irrelevant. Cantr cannot be anything else without changing its core gameplay.

What is it we really want now from Cantr, in regards to the pace of the game, mechanics, etc.?

I want people who are not online at the time of aggression to have a fighting chance for their attacked characters. Our current mechanics of dragging, fighting, and lock breaking are in favor of aggressors. Countervailing forces, such as good people banding together to punish criminals, have been in decline as Cantr's population declines.

We are left with a situation that favors predatory players over community builders. (There are a few other factors keeping predation low at the moment, but they aren't under player control.) A small percentage of predators keeps the rest on their toes and adds to excitement. If that percentage gets large, we will have a mass exodus of players. Who wants to put years into a game and have it ended in a few seconds while they were in the shower?

[Alladinsane]

Eventually the predators will have none but each other to prey upon?

Those who would protect something may have to do so with aggressive tactics. It will change things as far as demographic.

I would comment on how that has happened already on a certain island, but its still warm.

There are 'pockets' that are quite formidable, but I get the shower comment. I lost my only char (so far) because I had to get up to talk business with somebody. In that 20min, the Heratic (Harold teaque) was gone.

Lets keep it fun; I enjoy a few of you immensely. Actually, all of you. If we simulate a society, then there will always be some friction. Friction rocks.

Be well

[Cogliostro]

All in all, the slow pace of Cantr isn't a goal, it's a sad mechanical necessity. We just do not play our characters 24/7.

But it's definitely a goal to keep this necessity in mind, to recognize where a new feature or two could help lift some of the sad restrictions that come from sad necessities.

Sometimes (with things like dragging) it's too inconvenient for players not to have them instant. For the game, being convenient for players paradoxically means being slow-paced in one area and instant in another...

Of course player convenience is merely one factor to consider. Do other factors outweigh the inconveniences that might be introduced?

Enjoy the "Anti-Predator League of Cantr" set of attitudes? Consider what that designation makes you. If the baddies are predators, then you, according to those that wanna support the stereotype, must be the sheeple.

As usual in life, you find that the baddies actually think better of you than the goodies.