Animals

[Doug R.]

Here are the questions currently on the table:

How often should animals migrate? There are a broad spectrum of locations in the game, some that are dead ends, like Plaekur and Akypor, which have the lowest chance of getting migrating animals, and others, like the location in the middle of Pok Desert, that is linked to 5-6 other locations, and will see massive animal traffic. Clearly, it will be easy for a dead-end town to cull its animal populations, and hard for Pok Desert to do so. How hard do we wish to make it for a middling town, say, connected to 2-3 others?

How often should animals attack? Let's assume a location with one aggressive species is the norm. How often should these animals attack? Wolves are the most common, so let's make wolves the gold standard.

Natural animal death was eliminated, so animals are now immortal, just like characters. How often should animals reproduce? Or, to put it another way, given a few of a species, how long should it take, given no migration and no hunting, for that species to recover in that location?

Keep in mind that all animal values are on a per-pack basis. So, attack odds are per pack, reproduction odds are per pack, migration odds are per pack (not per animal, as it used to be).

Also keep in mind that species can all have unique values. I'm looking for averages here across the board.

[Fingersmith]

Just One question.
When you say that all percentages are now per pack and not per animal does this mean that a pack of 2 elephants has exactly the same percentage chance of attacking as a pack of 8 elephants?
If so then thinning the numbers will have no effect . One would need to eradicate them to make a place safer.

[Doug R.]

Pack numbers dictate how aggressive the pack is. The more animals, the more aggressive the pack, so lowering pack number does indeed help. I'm seeking input on "happy, stable packs" - i.e. packs with the middling amount of animals between too low and too high. (except in the re-population question, where I indeed want input regarding animals pops that are too low)

[Fingersmith]

My concern is not on the 'happy' levels but on the maximum damage one can withstand in a single day.
So for me the maximum damage that I consider as acceptable is that no newspawn should be killed by animals for 1-2 days.
That means for the most deserted place one could spawn with the maximum amount of animals , worst case senario for the newspawn being without any shield and be hit by all the packs in place for 2 consequative days should not result in him or her acummulating more than 99 damage and be killed by them.
2 days are enough if the character is active to try and find some cover or at least gather some food before leaving to travel to the next place .
If that cannot be accomplished then at least newspawns killed by animals within the first couple of days should be able to respawn somewhere else instead of being penalised to not to be able to have another character for 20 days as it is now.

[in vitro...]

How often should animals migrate?

almost never, only when there is a huge difference between populations in 2 locations

How often should animals attack? Let's assume a location with one aggressive species is the norm. How often should these animals attack? Wolves are the most common, so let's make wolves the gold standard.

that should rely heavily on species, but let's say once every 5 days for large packs of moderately aggressive animals.

Natural animal death was eliminated, so animals are now immortal, just like characters. How often should animals reproduce? Or, to put it another way, given a few of a species, how long should it take, given no migration and no hunting, for that species to recover in that location?

hard to say. 2 months to medium pack, another 2 to large pack.

[Hedgedhogst]

How often should animals migrate?

I'm not a great fan of migration. It's fun to try to memorise where all the animals are. Every two months is something I would nod along with though.

How often should animals attack? Let's assume a location with one aggressive species is the norm. How often should these animals attack? Wolves are the most common, so let's make wolves the gold standard.

Working on the theory that in the 'norm world' animals wouldn't randomly stop attacking after one strike, I think once a day is quite fair. It reminds characters to remain somewhat protected, encourages more indoor activities (rarely) and occasionally increases uses for healing foods.

Natural animal death was eliminated, so animals are now immortal, just like characters. How often should animals reproduce? Or, to put it another way, given a few of a species, how long should it take, given no migration and no hunting, for that species to recover in that location?

It's hard to figure, since some species lay nests of many eggs, and others knock out one, once in a blue moon. If all species are using the same pattern, then I think it should be somewhere close to the migration time. Make it seem like a seasonal thing.

[Fingersmith]

About the migration propability ,maybe you could link the propability of migration to the existing animal population.
That means animals would be a lot less propable to migrate to an already maxed by animals place and more inclined to populate to places with few animals.
This would balance populations within cities and also increase the migration to border towns like Akypor because although Akypor is linked to only one town animals from that town would definitely migrate towards Akypor instead towards the other direction if Akypor has fewer animals than the city in the other direction.
And its also logical that animals and people usally tend to populate more empty areas. When they try to populate an already dense area war is eminent and death follows.
Also , There could be some sort of animal disputes. For example I recently saw a rabbit coming in an area full of wolves. Well it is kinda strange that the wolves dont attack the rabbit.

[Addicted]

How often should animals attack? Let's assume a location with one aggressive species is the norm. How often should these animals attack? Wolves are the most common, so let's make wolves the gold standard.

I was wondering if the number of people in a location was in the equation. I agree it would be nice if a struggling newspawn didn't die in a day or two, but that means they would often be in a small location and would be attacked more often if numbers aren't used. Whereas in a large place the risk would be much lower due to both the spread of attacks and the increased hunting dropping the population to the level set by laws. Usually, but not always, struggling areas have lower populations of people and larger animal populations, so including the number of people may make it fairer?

[Doug R.]

The person attacked is randomly selected, so yes, it makes a difference in probability if there are more or less people in a location.

[Mr.Wabbles]

I attacks wolf! Wolf is deads! Hero? Yes! I.

[Oasis]

Doug, can you give us the current rates/rules for these things right now? That might make it easier for people to answer.

[Doug R.]

Animals have three relevant values - attack %, reproduction %, and migration %. This % reflects the daily odds, so per hour, these numbers are divided by 8. There are three states for each species - healthy, undercrowded, and overcrowded. At undercrowded, attack and migration % are halved, reproduction is doubled. At overcrowded, attack and migration is doubled, reproduction is halved. There is an on-location maximum for each species. When this is reached, there is no more reproduction or migration to that location. If an animal is the only one in a location, it will not migrate. Wounded animals do not migrate. Players attack the same animal in the pack until it dies.

(Aside: One of the common misconceptions in the game is that animals with low location maximums, like wolves, are somehow unhealthy. Once changes are made, I intend to write an extensive wiki entry on how animals work so that these misconceptions can be dispelled. We're also looking at replacing absolute animal numbers with descriptors of population density and health).

[Ronja Rotschopf]

One of my characters lives in a location where there were no grizzly bears. Three days ago appeared one, now they are already two. I assume a single animal can't reproduce, so it's probably the migration that happens too often. (too often because a safe location got risky in a quite short time)

[Doug R.]

I think it was made that you need two to spawn, so yes, it's due to migration.

[Fingersmith]

3599-4.28: You see wolf for the first time in this location.
.
3599-0.35: You see Person A expertly kill a wolf using a brand new scimitar.
.
3598-5.28: You see wolf for the first time in this location.
.
3593-3.23: You see Person A expertly kill a wolf using a brand new scimitar.

Now a wolf a day seems a bit of overmigration to me and since the place already had wolves before saying that we see them for the first time is a bit ....