Cantr II Discussion Forum

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a separate thread for us to backtrack, apologize, admit when we were unjustified or went too far in our anger or complaints. It's easier to save face when we can separate ourselves from the situation, and I think a separate thread from the vent tread helps. The name is a little goofy, but I like for it to be semi-symmetrical to the original.

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I owe players and staff an apology. While it is lacks detail, to be safe I'll hold out until the four day rule expires. At least if I state now that it's coming, I'll be more likely to follow through when the time comes.

I'm sorry for getting pissed off at the people who got "carried away" (and I only use that as a figure of speech) in the vent thread the last time it was locked. I had my feelings hurt pretty bad a few times by the original vent thread that was permanently locked down a few years back to the point where I actually thought about quitting. Now I realize I sort of took that out on people who didn't have anything to do with the issue. Forgive me?

The whole thread is just subjective mudslinging by people who treat the 4 day rule as a joke. I don't understand why people complain when it gets locked.

"unvent" the whole thing.

Because people don't want to plug up their feelings for four days and then relive the events, most people want to be into recovering by then. I think a bit of reaching out for a sympathetic response is why most people do it and why he thread gets so many responses, and I think it is worth the small risk as most things said are only clear to people who already know.

Because we need to remember that we aren't just trying to build a game, but a community. People would not claim the closest families are the ones that resolve disputes with stony silence.

Because there is a healthy middle ground that we all want to seek. The path is fainter and the footing worse, but the outcome is better.

Because the most admirable quality is being able to admit you were wrong, and to have the humility to back down from a position you had taken strongly.

I will throw in an apology. I did (though too briefly) apologize in an email to support but will hang my head publicly. While I managed to keep myself from posting on the forum, I sure didn't hold back in IRC. To the staff present for my ranting: I'm sorry. It was insensitive of me to not consider your nerves are probably more raw by events than my own. I'm trying not to take some things said personally and I hope that the staff are able to do the same. You're not the bad guys but are unfortunately often put in a position by players where you have to make some tough decisions that can't make everyone happy. Thank you for volunteering to bear that burden and putting up with raging players.

Alright, here goes.

I owe the players and staff an apology. I didn't start the fire, but I helped fan it.

I didn't mean to, but I admit it felt good to see outrage. It felt like implicit support for my loss. Because of this, I over-sharpened my barbs, pushed too far, included provocative topics that were almost completely unrelated.

The thread locks, or threat of thread locks, reminded me of when my father would abruptly prevent me from arguing with my mother. I feel that it made me pick more fights as proxy battles for the ones we didn't finish. I almost mentioned the comparison, but then wondered what would have happened if my father didn't stop me. Would my mom and I have got along any better?

After speaking with Doug, I think I know the answer to that question. I already knew there were many little factors to blame for recent events, and any one individual could only carry a tiny portion of it. It's hard to get too mad at someone for playing a game poorly, making the same mistakes you've once made yourself, or for not valuing the same kind of gameplay you do. What my father should have done was ask us, "what do you hope to get out of this?"

I told Doug that when speaking or writing, I bundle together both statements backed up with reason and the desires that I have but know I cannot endorse without being a hypocrite. I try to keep them distinct, but I only expect debate on things I try to justify. I expect only sympathy or understanding on the things I feel, or at worse to have those parts ignored. I think that we need to separate what we wish from what we justify, so that we don't make a habit of attempting to justify all the things we wish.

I think it is natural for us to wish things that are unfair. I think the best that we humans can achieve in honesty is to say things like "I want you to be ostracized, jailed, miserable, etc., but I would not wish that on a friend in your position, so I cannot ask that it happen".

Anything that I could fairly ask to happen, likely already has. Being the result of mistake, I think the people involved already feel bad. Yelling at them too much will only make them feel that maybe I deserved it. I only ask people be more careful in the future, careful in action and passing judgement. Not every char is what they seem, not everyone plays cantr for the same reasons, and there may be different types of RP, not just "good" and "bad".

I apologize for ever having hinted at any players cheating. The only situation I know of happened long ago, was confided to me BY the person who did it, and had already been punished. I have no reason to think there was any impropriety involved in any recent events.

I apologize to the staff. I'm harsher on them than on the players. We should push for the best, but only while remembering the staff are all volunteers dealing with incredibly difficult issues. The challenge of making online games fair, balanced, and engaging, cannot be overstated. It is not possible to make rules that will always produce "fair" outcomes, only that the rules be fairly applied. Whenever you feel the staff makes a decision that is unfair, take the most charitable interpretation, assume it was yourself in the situation, and ask if you would still stand by what you are asking for.

Now... who brought the marshmallows and firewood?

*plays guitar*


"Koombaiah my lord, koombaiah..."

-accompanies on clarinet-
Kum bah yah....

I've always wanted to taste marshmallows!!!

Vega wrote:I've always wanted to taste marshmallows!!!

They're very similar to our "nubes"

Have you ever put a "nube" on the fire? They don't act the same...

That's why I said they're similar...

Try a lighter, instead of a campfire

Our marshmallows don't roast anymore either. They changed the ingredients.

I make my s'mores in the microwave. Just put a graham cracker on a plate and put chocolate on one half and the marshmallow on the other. Leave it open face and zap it for 10 seconds. It's kind of cool because you can watch the marshmallow expand. After the timer dings, sandwich them together and wait a few seconds before consuming. You don't get the same smokey campfire flavor, but it's quick and good.