Cantr II Discussion Forum

Here you can talk about developed towns vs undevoloped, newspawns, and old people.

Mojomuppet wrote:What I dont like is that as a char gets older( in alot of cases, not all, but a whole lot) they hold keys stunting the growth of town and wont share, dont bother to help out either, and mostly only speaking up enough to keep from dieing off. This comes from the fact that younger ( I dont mean newspawns but younger than so old my first piece was a dino so IM bored to death) wont force the hand of the older ones. If you dont want to play because you have nothing else to gain, take your share, travel,or give the keys up and watch what happens next. I hate hate hate when older people are protected even when they dont play. This is a human emotion that shouldnt stunt towns) Grrr!

Sadly if a char even brings this up they are likely to be killed while the others just pray the leader will wake up and lead again. They wake, pick up food ask a question and are gone for another 19 days.

I've had two characters killed because the character holding the second most power thought he would gain by doing so. In the second case, he held the same amount of power (though I think I could have convinced him otherwise if his lacky didn't decide to kill me to avoid him having him read my notes). The first killer was Izimiger. My characters try very hard to make sure that the characters in their town don't gain from their death. My characters find people they can trust and give them the keys. I don't want to do everything myself anyway. I imagine that this isn't the case with all old characters however.

Re: SumBum's discussion, yes, it is pretty selfish, but the leaders certainly shouldn't be required to surrender their keys. It sucks that they're sleepy and I hate it too, but perhaps someday they'll come back.

If you don't like it, do something about it. Rally up an army. It'll take a while. By the time you're ready to launch your attack, they'll be dead. (this has happened twice to me in my Cantr game history)

returner wrote:Re: SumBum's discussion...blah blah blah

Er...what? I think you mean Mojomuppet.

Many of my chars would agree that it's selfish and stunting to the town when a leader is incredibly sleepy. A few chars would defend their sleepy leader.

Urgh stupid me. Sorry lol!

Being a sleepy leader is selfish of the player. Pick a successor, or divide responsibilities by function.

I think that there should be a way to knock a character out so you can take his/her stuff without killing. Maybe make blunt weapons better than sharp weapons for a knockout. Also make knockout numbers lower than damage numbers, so it's harder to do.

I understand it would be easier on you and the town if you had access to the buildings, machines, and resources the sleepy leader acquired throughout his life. Instead of coveting his possessions, spend the 2 years to make your won stone building or cottage, make some machines, go on some resource runs, make your own metal and become self sufficient.

Bowser wrote:I understand it would be easier on you and the town if you had access to the buildings, machines, and resources the sleepy leader acquired throughout his life. Instead of coveting his possessions, spend the 2 years to make your won stone building or cottage, make some machines, go on some resource runs, make your own metal and become self sufficient.

Exactly.

Kill him, or run things yourself.

returner wrote:

Bowser wrote:I understand it would be easier on you and the town if you had access to the buildings, machines, and resources the sleepy leader acquired throughout his life. Instead of coveting his possessions, spend the 2 years to make your won stone building or cottage, make some machines, go on some resource runs, make your own metal and become self sufficient.

Exactly.

Kill him, or run things yourself.

Exactly? Kill him or runs things yourself ? That doesn't make any sense. I'm telling you to do it yourself and stop thinking you are entitled to things behind the locked door. You say, man I can't make this Claymore because the weapon making tools are in the tool closet all locked up, I wish that leader would wake up!!! I say, I need some tools to make a Claymore and then I make the tools. The minute you realize that you are in control of what you are in control of and have the ability to be just as powerful as the sleeper, there will be no reason toi kill him because he CAN"T thwart your town growth unless you remain dependent on him/her.

As a (semi) sleepy leader, I try to do two things.

1. Keep valuable resources under lock and key. They are not often needed, except for large, special projects anyway.

2. Keep buildings with machinery and basic resources open. People are allowed free access to all the basic necessities, as well as nice machines, if they've brought their own resources they'd like to turn into something useful.

I find my citizens are happier with me when I don't try to hoard machinery and the like. Sure, they'd like to have free run of all the vehicles, ships, and valuable resources. That's ambition for the finer things in life, or on a darker side, naked greed. But, if they want such things so badly, they'll either be willing to work for it, make it themselves, or steal and kill to get it. This speaks of the character's character. Their willingness to take any of the routes to get what they want, speaks volumes about what kind of person they are. Honestly, if I've a citizen in my town that genuinely views murder or theft as a viable choice, I don't want them in my town anyway.

Keegan Ingrassia wrote:As a (semi) sleepy leader, I try to do two things.

What is semi-sleepy? Playing once per day? That might be reasonable. Once per week? Not reasonable.

1. Keep valuable resources under lock and key. They are not often needed, except for large, special projects anyway.

OK. My characters with keys do the same. But why do they need to be under one person's exclusive control? Don't you trust anyone enough to have a key to, say, the tool hut or the food warehouse? If you have things divided among a few storage places, any single person can't do too much damage. The benefit of having an active character make the town run more smoothly and pursue goals that are appropriate to the town's level of development should outweigh the potential of betrayal. After all, who wants to reinvent the wheel, or make bone tools when the town has 20 iron shields in storage?

I I'm talking about flat out sleeping and only waking up long enough to stay alive. I had one character live in a town for five years, heard the leader speak twice and one of them was to steal the trade my char was trying to make to heal herself. The leader slept so long they drug her inside in case she died ( chars in 40's and 50's did this) Only for her to step out a few min later go to work and not even speak. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I have seen this kind of thing happen in other towns too, this one just stands out the most.

This char had a building, of course no lock so she couldn't leave it unattended. You assume wanting something is wanting everything and that isn't the case.

Chris wrote:What is semi-sleepy? Playing once per day?

Yes. On the times when I'm not near an internet connection, once every other day. Or not being on for the weekend.

Chris wrote:Don't you trust anyone enough to have a key to, say, the tool hut or the food warehouse?

I consider food a 'basic resource', ergo, free reign. Also, I try to have containers outside in my towns, that are kept filled with food.
And in places with trustworthy, active people, yes, they have access to the tool shed. Basic tools, like bone knives and stone hammers, are in the public building. Nicer, special purpose, tools are kept in the tool shed.

Chris wrote:The benefit of having an active character make the town run more smoothly and pursue goals that are appropriate to the town's level of development should outweigh the potential of betrayal.

Yes and no. An active character makes the town run smoothly, yes. An active character that betrays the town has the potential to reduce a metropolis to the stone age, or kill it outright. Pok Harbour, anyone? Dory?

Chris wrote:After all, who wants to reinvent the wheel, or make bone tools when the town has 20 iron shields in storage?

Yes yes, back to the topic of 'newspawns are lazy folks who aren't willing to work for what they want, and just want a handout'. Look, if they want the nicer things, they can purchase them, or work for them. Or, they are provided for them, as they prove themselves loyal and active.

mojomuppet wrote:I I'm talking about flat out sleeping and only waking up long enough to stay alive. I had one character live in a town for five years, heard the leader speak twice and one of them was to steal the trade my char was trying to make to heal herself. The leader slept so long they drug her inside in case she died ( chars in 40's and 50's did this) Only for her to step out a few min later go to work and not even speak. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I have seen this kind of thing happen in other towns too, this one just stands out the most.

This char had a building, of course no lock so she couldn't leave it unattended. You assume wanting something is wanting everything and that isn't the case.

Ah. I've had a few leaders guilty of this. Maybe not to that level, but just silently working and observing, instead of actively leading. Usually occurs from RL things, but also from times where you just don't feel like being pestered. And it is detrimental to a town's growth, yes. Ashamed I joined the ranks of those kinds of leaders I once scorned. A solution would be to 'pass the torch', as it were, but I suppose with it comes a loss of control. Some people don't want to lose that luxury. Selfish? Yes. Unexpected or unusual? Not really.

Learn to delegate dangit. All my characters hate leaders like that.

Learn to be worth delegating to, dangit.