Then and Now

[Mafia Salad]

So I had an account back in 05-06, and enjoyed the game but due to RL obligations had to give it up. Now I've come back and am learning all about the new world of abandoned towns and passive animals. Here is some quick comparisons of life then and now.

Then
A bike was a rarity, something for upper class characters only.

Now
There are more vehicles then people in most old towns. And almost always more buildings.

Then
Animals seemed to attack a lot more, places like Aki were a constant fight against the wilds.

Now
I've had a character span on Aki island almost a year ago, and still have not been attacked by any animals and have only seen one other person get attacked. The great land of fighting for survival is no more.

Then
Romantic relationships were about one per decent sized town and usually years in the making. Most of my characters lived into their thirties and none of them were ever offered a relationship.

Now
Two of my characters have been approached with romantic relationships in their first year of life. I haven't had the time to get to know you people yet. What's up with that?

Then
Public displays of affection were almost non existent. It was all whispers or indoors.

Now
Several of the towns I've been in have been awkward, and even annoying, with how much hugging and kissing and beyond that goes on in public talk, even between people who just met. Makes me think too many players are a bit lonely.

Then
The game was dominated by people building societies and pursuing great goals. Role playing was common, but a lot of players really didn't do much RP if any.

Now
Role play quality seems to be a lot better. But there doesn't seem to be much more going on beyond that. Maybe it's because towns are set and needs are met so coming up with a worthy goal is a lot harder and making it happen is a lot easier. Does this mean Cantr needs a Cantr?

Then
There were a lot of real bizarre newspawns with clever names like "Chuck Norris" who made great fodder for town guards to practice their sabre use on.

Now
Newspawns spawn sleeping. (There will probably always be some Chuck Norrises but they do seem less common.) I have yet to see a town guard killing off sleepers... but I bet somewhere it's happening.

Then
Spawntheives stole notes.

Now
Spawntheives steal bikes.

Then
You could kill another person in the public square, cry about it, and get off scott free.
But if you call the town leader a moron you will be lock in a building, denied food and everyone in town will take turns beating you to death.

Now
Some things never change.

[Rebma]

Then
There were a lot of real bizarre newspawns with clever names like "Chuck Norris" who made great fodder for town guards to practice their sabre use on.

LOL I remember that guy.

[Idriveayugo]

People getting in relationships drives me crazy. I might just destroy all relationships in cantr.

[randognsac]

I've played for two and a half years and never had a romantic relationship. Maybe a little innocent flirting but no romance. My characters have strictly plutonic relationships. I have a few close friendships that have taken years to develop though.

[returner]

Cantr needs to be reset.. or a second world needs to be made. As a society simulator, this world failed. It's way, way, way too big and cars are now way too easy to make.

[Mafia Salad]

Really? I don't think it has failed at all as a society simulator. Essentally what happens in Cantr is families. You have groups, whether they called towns, armies, businesses, clans, etc. Who look out for the interests of the group. A lot like families used to be and in much of the world still are. Some grow into tribes, some tribes split, some families die off, new ones grow to replace them. Most have a patriarchal or matriarchal leader who is the power broker in the family. The family is first building block of any society.

I am actually really enjoying the almost post apocoliptic feel of places like Ticawhois... (Golden Shores) and the area around there. You wander into a town with 70 buildings 30 vehicles and 3 people who are either travelers or newspawns. It's like "What happened here?" The avalibility of cars and radios I think make it possible to have single government over dozens of locations with relative ease.

It's just a golden time for a new group of society building, big dreaming, goal driven players to go out into the world of Cantr, build new empires and restore old empires to greatness. Look past you own town to the one next door and figure out how to run them both. Just this time around they don't have to spend all their time making iron, weapons and vehicles because they are sitting around in storerooms waiting to be used.

[SekoETC]

Building things was much easier in the past. Now it takes so many stages that many people get bored and/or die before they ever finish.

[Marian]

It's just a golden time for a new group of society building, big dreaming, goal driven players to go out into the world of Cantr, build new empires and restore old empires to greatness. Look past you own town to the one next door and figure out how to run them both. Just this time around they don't have to spend all their time making iron, weapons and vehicles because they are sitting around in storerooms waiting to be used.

Yeah but...building things was always a good, concrete goal to work towards. Not saying it's necessarily a good thing, but saying, "Hey, let's all work together to get every citizen a nice weapon and shield or build this cool vehicle or a new town hall" is probably a bit more motivating then, "Let's get the leader of the town next door to ally with us even though we have no common threat and don't really need anything from each other and nothing will change anyway, because, meh, I don't know, empires seem like the new thing now."

The game is incredibly unbalanced at this point, almost to the point of unplayability - at least from the strategy side. I still find it incredibly addictive because of the RP and am trying to focus on that with my newer characters, I just remember there being a better mix of both when I first started. (Slightly better, even then it was still pretty broken.)

This is probably going to become a bit of a rant and go off topic, but bear with me please. Once all the positive motivations are fulfilled (stuff your character or town wants) all that's left are the negatives (stuff your character or town does not want.) The problem is, beyond made up RP motivations, in Cantr there are only two real negative motivators - starvation and violence.

Food is a non-issue so scratch starvation. Violence, or the threat of it, potentially could lead to some really interesting things, but, I don't know...it never seems to work that way. A group of guys going around completely wiping out towns is the opposite of interesting, and that's the closest thing to a war we ever seem to get. The way the game mechanics are set up we'll never see anyone going around enslaving or occupying towns, with both cultures gradually changing over time, which IMO would be interesting, but could never happen unless a sizeable group of people are willing to RP being defeated and being willing to live with that...so it will never happen. Most people can't be forced to bend to your will no matter how overwhelming the odds - they'll just make a dramatic speech and die or else their players will just stop checking that character.

Honestly, I have no idea what my point is. I guess I'm just always wishing for some conflict that isn't deliberately provoked ("sheep are evil, I will start a crusade to wipe out sheep, I spit on your hunting laws!" or "I am a cocky bastard and buck authority whenever I can even though there is no logical reason to break these four laws and everyone I've met has been perfectly friendly and polite", or "This infinite resource belongs to us alone, we'll make laws protecting it and the hundred kilos we have stockpiled because otherwise we might run out?" or "I do not understand what roleplay is, so I'll just make all my characters the exact same emotionless killer," or whatever) but instead comes from actual in game pressure.

If there was some actual scarcity, you could get situations like "I'd like to be able to feed everyone that asks, but an endless supply of food doesn't magically sprout up in the fields, so majority of the food has to go to active citizens that are helping the town, with merchants with useful goods getting the rest" and "Wow, we can't gather all the food we want from our neighbors anymore and they don't want our hemp, people here might actually starve if we don't do something drastic" and...well, there's lots of directions things could go from there, with a need for strategic actions motivating awesome RP.

And yep, that was an off topic rant all right. Thanks for reading!

[randognsac]

I didn't play in the glory days so I don't really know what I'm missing. But I've been around for awhile, so I know how things are now. I understand both point of views. I have a character that has the same things goin' on as your examples that you want in your rant Marian. But he actually lives in an empire of sorts. He leads a town in a community of towns and has all the resources they need. He gives a lot away but makes people work for it for the most part. He helps to provide individuals to have goals in this place. This place has no food resources, sleepers do not get fed. His "people" (for lack of better term) can't survive doin' that. You can still get the gameplay you want, you just got to work at it a little harder. This game is what you make it and there isn't a game that I have seen do that but CANTR 2 and that is why I LOVE it! Like I said I see your point and I do agree with some of it but the motivation is up to you, infinite possibilities, as long as your imagination can take you there! Sure mechanics might limit you a little and things arent perfect but what is? Like Bill O' Reilly says, "DO IT LIVE!". Sorry about my rant, I have been drinking! So... thanks for reading, I think.

[Marian]

Sorry about my rant too, I probably should have been drinking!

I know it's possible to get the situation you describe, but you need specific factors and it's not exactly the norm. I seem to spawn a lot of characters in sleepy carrot and potato towns and it's just so frustrating, how stagnant everything is. Like the laws that haven't been updated since the 1000s and the two shops and the inn that have existed forever without a single customer. A lot of times I'll purposely cause trouble just to stir things up, and as fun as that can be if I examine what I'm doing too closely I have to wonder just where the heck my character is getting their motivation from...nothing in their enviroment would realistically lead to it.

And I did live in a struggling mountain town once, that was awesome too as long as my char never asked herself what was so special about all the damn rocks that she didn't just move to the town with all the people and resources and jobs two short walks away.

[randognsac]

Yes there are lots of stagnant towns, but there is opportunity there. I guess what is "killing" Cantr is players and time. Real life is a drag!

[theguy]

This game is what you make it and there isn't a game that I have seen do that but CANTR 2 and that is why I LOVE it! Like I said I see your point and I do agree with some of it but the motivation is up to you, infinite possibilities, as long as your imagination can take you there! Sure mechanics might limit you a little and things arent perfect but what is?

QFT! I completely agree with you here this game is what you make it and its amazing how a town of sleepers suddenly becomes fun when you stir up a little trouble by doing something controversial. I could think of lodsa examples.

[DylPickle]

Ah, for the olden days....

Marian, I completely agree with your rant. It's a player thing though, through and through. I don't know, sometimes I find it helps if I picture my character less as a character in an online world, and more like a character in a book. If you imagine a story being told, then it's easier to separate the character from yourself, easier to find the motivations, etc of the character, and easier to eventually get a real story going.

The trouble is.... We RPers know this, but it seems like the majority see cantr more as one of those dragon growing games in signatures, or something. Something you just go on daily, hunt, farm the magic tater tot field and log off. Makes for meh...


I actually have a character now that sort of represents my current sense of despair for cantr. She's been half starving most her life, drifting around a region for years. She usually hangs around the outside of the towns, and tries to observe the people there before making a move to talk to people, but I always make sure her actions are in emotes. Once she barely garnered enough strength to make it into the main area of town to collapse a few meters from a man in his twenties. Starved, and weak, she laid there for days on end while the man farmed potatoes and consistently hunted every day. So I made sure I returned the favour by RPing her decaying condition on a daily basis as well, never actually addressing the man directly in the emotes. After about five or six days, she started finding potatoes on the ground, and she lived off those for about ten days. The guy was logging on every day to hunt, but his inventory was overflowing potatoes, and he wasn't actually doing -anything- with the things he was getting from his repetitive hunting. Never once in that period of around two weeks did he ever speak or emote a single thing.

It was sad.

[Dudel]

Never once in that period of around two weeks did he ever speak or emote a single thing.

I've grown into the OOC habit of killing those types of characters.... when my characters can formulate even the most bizarre reason. My favorite was saying that such a man was clearly possessed... which eventually lead to the other characters death. I'm so evil!

[Mafia Salad]

Then
First contact was made between English and non-English speakers.

Now
There's at least a couple Spanish speaking sub communities on the main English islands. And translation dictionaries for all manner of languages all over the place.

Then
The Apothecary table was a nice decoration.

Now
You can grow herbs in boxes and make fancy potions.

(On a side note, I think snakes should give you 10 grams of snake oil when they are killed, and it should be mixed with dill and willow to create a magical heal all liquid.)