Cantr II Discussion Forum

To explain further... Knowing what certain things do or yeild...I had a character state the knowlegde of what certain foods do. Now I also had a character comment on such knowledge...So I ask where do we draw the line as it is we know how to build a car instictively. And for the most part everyone starting out immidatly starts a mad search for iron or the like. As it is when you first start out if we go by the premis that you should know jack and diddlely. Why is it then that everyone or at least nearly everyone goes on the prowe for iron? So where is the limit? Shoul tyhis be considered a breach if on poses knowldge of a food or a machine? I can understanded CR pretaining to things of events and such. but what of the rest?

I don't think you should head out for important resources without proper knowledge of them...but usually you can see if there are mountains and forests nearby on the map, and I presume that the map reflects the sight of the characters...

*cough*skills system*cough*

I think the challenge is in this kind of game you get two sets of people, those who are keen to actually work to build up a character over time and those who just want to get themselves a shield, a sabre and build everything they can as fast as a possible.

This is the big reason why many games include some kind of skill system. It serves to regulate the knowledge the player already has - as they earn skill points or levels it opens up more that they can use their actual knowledge on.

The biggest challenge though is implementing a system that slows the pace of advancement down just a bit but at the same time doesn't impede the game so much that you can't do anything without having an immense amount of skills.

For instance, I know I have never build an oven when I needed to smelt iron, although a noob might. Its minor CR breaches like that which we do without thinking, that gives us an advantage over new players. A minor type of skills system needs to be added, not rigid like games, however.

None of that answers my question...

Not sure what is good...

What I try to do...

Foodwise...I always pick food in the location that is edible over healing to eat. I think the characters should know that where they are spawned. It is difficult to remember sometimes when going to a new location what foods the character knows about and I usally forget. Some maps have this info on it.

Healwise...I don't know the healing rate unless I am hurt or it is published or I ask someone who is hurt.

Gathering...I don't know the gathering rate for resources I haven't seen unless it is publihed

Machines uses...Just build everthing from easiest to hardest. I have one character who plans to build everything. But since more of everything keeps getting created they may never reach the goal. It would be interesting if there were alternate machines that produce cost 1% of the real machines and produce 1% of the real machines. You could have a inventors workshop.

Tools that help on resources...if I haven't seen it then I don't know. But an axe just makes sense.

Which weapon is best...harder to make is better

Is iron important?...Born knowing the answer is yes

How to build everything...born knowing how to build not what they do specifically. Although some are just logical like ovens for food.

That's what I do but not perfectly all the time.

A suggestion for "the line" then.

The, by it's design, has to give you clues about how things are done/made. (ie you can see all the tools possible to make etc.) the only line you can really draw is:

Your char doesn't know how to do it if they a) haven't been told by another character that they have interacted with. or b) can't figure it out on their own in game.

If you learn how to make iron through another character it's your responsibility to keep that information to thae other character - which is admittedly really tough to do. IIf you don't know it's not the end of the world - it realy just shortens some of the trial and error in game.

At the end of the day one char figuring out a process faster than some others isn't a huge deal that affects the game -- it's the bigger CR picture where chars use information that another char gained (ie. your char in Lad learns they're going to sneak attack aneighbouring town -- and your char in the target town then arns people and flees) that has a big impact.

So basically you need to draw the line as tight as you can role-play it.

Thats why I keeeep my char as seperate as possible, wihtout either having a real chance to forewarn another. As for machine wise, if it were to be lenient, you'd know what materials you'd need for what machine, but not what each machine does. Most of the material per machine are common sense, i.e. stone for a cooking stone, stone+wood for stone hammer. For other machines it should require someone else's knowledge to inform your own.

I fuigure it this way, I spawn when Im twenty so before then is where I learned of these things, and I consider the building, manufacturing, and clothing, buttons a sort of guide book, a how to if you will that is in my chars inventory. I kinda see the green screen as my chars brain and whatever is on that screen must be my knowledge.

Someone at sometime brought something like this up before, and at the time I think we came to the conclusion that until something is changed then if you know how to build it, then you must have at least a good idea of what it can do. Plus chars are born at 20, so you gotta figure that a char at least knows some basic stuff, otherwise the cantr would be almost unplayable. Someone needs to put together a list of things that should be "learned" knowledge for newspawsn, as in things a char should have learned in the years before they turned 20. Basic stuff like what to eat (in that particular area), some tools (hammer, trowel), and some weapons (hunting bow, sword) shoud be "common" knowledge to any char that is spawned. The particulars for making leather, steel, material for clothing, etc. should have to be learned by trial and error or by asking someone.

I think of all the tools and machines as ideas that are in my characters mind. They think to themselves they would like to hit something really hard and then a lightbulb goes off in their head... you knwo if I put some stone on the end of a stick and swing it, I could smash things.

I have this idea of a machine that can transport something from one area to another. Then after pondering the situation, I bet that some metal for a frame, rubber for wheels and then some glass to protect my eyes would do the trick.

I don't consider it against the capitol rule at all to know what resources are needed to make simple tools/machines.

Well if the player has enough good vs. bad common sense and sanity, the grey zone should be categorized by the player's style.

i don't mind if people realise what a hammer is use for or that iron is important. even noob's after looking through the build list can see that in about 5 minutes. the ones i hate is when they have a char die so they bring them back with the same name but in a different place and keep their knowledge the same and start sprouting about an area they can clearly have no knowledge of.

g1asswa1ker wrote:None of that answers my question...

I can totally see where you come from, the skills system would help greatly to "draw the line" for those people who try to make a sabre when theoretically, they shouldnt even know what it is. Let alone that it requires these resources, that tool and that type of machine.

The mentallity(spelling sucks, sorry) that shows in certain players of "get as much as you can, as fast as you can" is mostly from other games where you have a goal, and if you reach the goal you win. New players and many regular players dont seem to understand that this is not a "win or else game" but that it is a "build the society game."

not much of any way to change that so we are stuck with these people who spawn, run around like the maniacs they really are, gather resources they theoretically wouldnt need if they were truely "newborn" people and then raise armies to attack towns full of people in their forties just to get their stuff.

*shrugs* I deal with it.


PsPi

I think roleplaying to learn things when the answers are clearly right in front of you on the player screen is difficult and really serves no purpose.
Already knowing these things is not a cr breech because all your char knows is what is on the chars screen, from events, to building things and what materials it takes to do it.
Plus this game is not about learning how to make things it is about polotics, war, formation of governments, and the building of cities from the ground up.
The famous green screen is your chars brain and you should be able to use any bit of info that is on that screen..unless someone talks OOC you cant use that..which I dislike when people do that anyway..if you wanna make a comment use this forrum.