Cantr II Discussion Forum

I'm not exactly new to Cantr, but I'm not exactly seasoned either, so I hope that this issue hasn't been too thoroughly discussed.

You see, I've read much concerning characters arriving with pre-conceived notions about morality and the like; I've read the various arguments for and against. Occasionally, someone mentions the first twenty years of a Cantrian's existence or non-existence.
And that is my question: is there an official position regarding the first twenty years of a character? Have they been living and learning for 400 days before they spawn?
Or are they simply born with the physiological characteristics of young adults?

If the former is so, then their notions are not truly pre-conceived.
If the latter is so, it raises some interesting points.

Naturally, those that would see characters take their moral cues solely from the town they spawn in would subscribe to the latter option. But I submit that if you believe a newspawn is a blank slate, then you have to go the whole way: how could he or she be fluent and literate in a language he or she has neither heard nor seen before spawning?

But if you suspend your disbelief as regards language, why not concerning morality?

It's always struck me as odd as to what a new char knows. (I could refer you to a note now in Kwor.) With the Wiki, one can assume that they have access to learning all this stuff during the first 20 years. The fact that some know nothing of it just means they've bunked off school. But on this analogy, the learning will have been done in the spawn town, so all his moral values should have come from there, and all RL morals and prejudices should have no place.
Of course this is almost impossible in practiceand modern ideas are almost universal.
Thus the difficulty of getting superstitions and the crazier forms of religion accepted,
But if, as in Kwor's note, the spawning process is a complete mystery, then my own concept may well be wrong. Until the scientists/theologians/philosophers of Cantr can solve this mystery, how can there be any rules?

J. Scott wrote:And that is my question: is there an official position regarding the first twenty years of a character? Have they been living and learning for 400 days before they spawn?
Or are they simply born with the physiological characteristics of young adults?

I had similar questions when I started playing several months ago. I believe that the official position is that the character does not exist before spawning (i.e., no childhood). However, making up some background for RP color is tolerated, as long as it is unobtrusive and does not involve knowledge that a character should get in-game.

If the former is so, then their notions are not truly pre-conceived.
If the latter is so, it raises some interesting points.

Naturally, those that would see characters take their moral cues solely from the town they spawn in would subscribe to the latter option. But I submit that if you believe a newspawn is a blank slate, then you have to go the whole way: how could he or she be fluent and literate in a language he or she has neither heard nor seen before spawning?

But if you suspend your disbelief as regards language, why not concerning morality?

I think you just have to accept that there are inconsistencies that have no satisfactory resolution. As tiddy says, they are mysteries. It doesn't do much good to dwell on them, so characters and players accept them for what they are and move on with their lives/playing.

As much as possible, Cantr is self-contained and separate from our RL world. However, things like language and other background knowledge (i.e., how to build things) would be impractical to learn in-game. Thus, those things are exceptions.

As for morality, I think that it depends on specificity. Someone could spawn with particular tendencies, but for those tendencies to develop into a detailed ideology or world view would have to depend on the character's in-game experience. For example, I think it would be fine to have a character who spawns with a strong distrust of outsiders. However, writing the equivalent of Mein Kampf about how all people who didn't spawn in that town are inherently inferior would seem inappropriate for a newspawn, in my opinion.

Newspawns have no past; they are created from nothing and have only their personalities and ideas to start with. For a character to refer to a past before they were spawned would be grossly bad RPing and would put other players in a difficult position.

In the beginning I had background stories but they indeed put people in an awkward position. This has lead into that if a young person comes up with an exceptional story, even if it was technically fitting to Cantr people can't fully believe him because there is a chance it was all made up and the people involved didn't exist. It annoys me when people spawn with titles even though the instructions for naming characters clearly state that you shouldn't have such things. Also when someone has the title then other people recognize it as if they had the background info needed to acknowledge it.

I think you just have to accept that there are inconsistencies that have no satisfactory resolution. As tiddy says, they are mysteries. It doesn't do much good to dwell on them, so characters and players accept them for what they are and move on with their lives/playing.

That is actually quite satisfactory a resolution, and is much the way I think about my own real life. The middle way Chris is advocating is the way I've been doing it in Cantr, and I think I will continue in that vein, since it has mileage with other players.

Chris wrote:I think you just have to accept that there are inconsistencies that have no satisfactory resolution. As tiddy says, they are mysteries. It doesn't do much good to dwell on them, so characters and players accept them for what they are and move on with their lives/playing.

And I can tell you that for those of us with characters that do dwell on the inconsistencies and bugs and try to stimulate some kind of superstition, this attitude is the single largest reason why there will never be any kind of organized religion in the game. Seriously, if a person died and three corpses appeared, would you just accept it and move on with your life? No, but that's what everyone does, and I find it very frustrating.

Not all but most.

Doug R. wrote:

Chris wrote:I think you just have to accept that there are inconsistencies that have no satisfactory resolution. As tiddy says, they are mysteries. It doesn't do much good to dwell on them, so characters and players accept them for what they are and move on with their lives/playing.

And I can tell you that for those of us with characters that do dwell on the inconsistencies and bugs and try to stimulate some kind of superstition, this attitude is the single largest reason why there will never be any kind of organized religion in the game. Seriously, if a person died and three corpses appeared, would you just accept it and move on with your life? No, but that's what everyone does, and I find it very frustrating.

No, I would kill other people and see how many corpses they produce;

http://xkcd.com/242/

formerly known as hf wrote:No, I would kill other people and see how many corpses they produce;

http://xkcd.com/242/

In defense of all scientists, we would touch it subsequently with a circuit tester, and then tear it apart to find out why.

Alas, Douglas brings up a good point as well; it is a difficult issue.
I'm glad that there have been in-game attempts at explaining odd phenomena. A character of mine once came across a medical text that treated on the frequency and baffling nature of "heart attacks".

Perhaps it should fall somewhere in the middle. Things necessary to game mechanics, like proficiency in the game's languages, ought not be subjected to too close a scrutiny, but things that are potential fodder for roleplay (the three corpses) ought to be exploited more than they have been.

Seriously, if a person died and three corpses appeared, would you just accept it and move on with your life? No, but that's what everyone does, and I find it very frustrating.

You don't know the portuguese cantr do you?
Maybe isn't better talk about that...but..that happened in different three locations.
One of my chars, a researcher tried to use..uh...unusual metods to try to preserve one of the demi-bodies and study it, but besides some bizarre conclusions it brought nothing interesting, so the body was buried away and the report archived somewhere in the deep of that location.

Organised Religions I don't know, but we alse have a recurring philosophy near to the Eudaimonia or the Epicureanism.

But is interesting to know people are discussing such an inportant affair, really good.

Seriously, if a person died and three corpses appeared, would you just accept it and move on with your life? No, but that's what everyone does, and I find it very frustrating.

In Kiii once we realized that we could continue to attack someone after they died, so we kept going at it for the fun of it, and every now and then a new body appeared...found out later that's exploiting a bug. (for those wondering, it's no longer possible)