I miss the really really really good days..

[N-Aldwitch]

Do you remember when Kwor used to have 80++ people!!

On recent inspection... it had 23 outside! ...

Can anyone explain why there has been a MASSIVE drop? It used to be so much fun. 80 people... And remember Olipifirovash west or wherever?

[Doug R.]

Can anyone explain why there has been a MASSIVE drop?

Yes, I can: A nearly complete absence of any sort of effective marketing.

The first Cantrians were recruited by word of mouth, but now that everyone has exhausted their friends, we're left with whatever players the banner ads and voting sites bring in, most of whom probably don't stick around.

Word of mouth, the most effective form of marketing.

I know lots of people bristle at the idea that Cantr is in any way fantasy, but seriously, if someone was to set up a booth at a gaming (computer or RPG) convention, it could go a long way to revitalizing the player base. I'm not the first player to suggest this either. (and no, I'm not volunteering. I've never been to a gaming convention in my life, and I'm not a salesman). There are probably a lot of WOW burnouts out there that would jump at the chance of playing a pure, slower paced RPG like Cantr

[Reindeer^]

Was the number of active chars bigger when there was more chars or was there just more no-mouths?
I don´t know.

[Doug R.]

It is a synergistic effect of a lack of new players and old players losing interest and not replacing dead characters.

I want to state for the record that I'm not implying that the MD isn't trying to do their job. What I think is that the MD doesn't know how to do their job, through no fault of their own. I think the MD, above all other departments, needs leadership with a formal education in the subject area. You can teach yourself to program, but I don't think you can teach yourself to market effectively, at least not in front of a computer.

For the department to be effective, I think the head of the MD should be someone with a degree in marketing, or at least someone pursuing a degree in marketing. I had put forward the idea some time ago that the chair position could be advertised as a way for marketing students to gain practical experience in the field to pad their resume before they head out into the real world. And when I mean advertise, I mean really advertise: Monster, Craigslist, etc.

I think the potential benefits of having an educated and motivated person in the position of MD chair would far outweigh the transient monetary cost associated with advertising.

Again, nothing against the current MD Chair and staff; you're doing the best you can with what you know.

[Pieter de Groote]

Marketing is not the reason. The game itself is not appealing for a large audience for many reasons.

Also, once you've played the game for some time, it gets too boring for most. The game mechanism is fun at first, but doesn't provide much challenges for experienced/wealthy characters.

[Leo Luncid]

Wouldn't they make their own challenges then?

[Doug R.]

Marketing is not the reason. The game itself is not appealing for a large audience for many reasons.

That doesn't explain the dramatic drop in the English language player base over the last few years, or the dramatic rise in the Polish player base during the same period (a language group known for having a far more extensive social word of mouth network than the English group).

[Reindeer^]

Wouldn't they make their own challenges then?

No. They want ready quests!

[Cherize]

I would hope, now that the game is more playable, that the numbers would go back up. There are an amazing number of characters just doing nothing in most towns. There are still groups of dedicated players who remain active, e.g. Stone Knights.

Not to get off topic, but I wish there was a way select new areas to spawn into. Every once in a while, I'll create a new character, only to spawn in the same area of the same island. Could a "Would you like to spawn in a previously unexplored or uninhabited area?" option be implemented?

Again, I apologize for getting off topic.

[Leo Luncid]

I don't know. It would be cool to visit a new island discovering another group of people who live there, but isn't that what existing populated islands are for? It should require some effort to explore new islands; having some random newspawn get a whole island to his or herself probably wouldn't survive the animals living there anyways.

Wouldn't they make their own challenges then?

No. They want ready quests!

Everybody would like the convenience of having something ready for you to do, but there are so many things that are ready for you to do; even for the experienced and wealthy. If you're retired from the military, you would have a lot of inspiration from those memories to create fictional war stories or histories to teach to those who are in the military. If you're old and ready to die, you could meet your long-time friends for support. If you're married with the only person you could ever want, you could share those lessons that go with that gift to others who are willing to do the same.


Really, we need those who are introduced to this game to realize the potential that you could do with a comprehensive world like this.

[Doug R.]

Really, we need those who are introduced to this game to realize the potential that you could do with a comprehensive world like this.

I agree with you in spirit. The problem is, Cantr is just like real life in regards to the things you mentioned. Many people say "It would be great to write a novel or my memoirs" but who really ever does it?

The facts are that it is sometimes easier to find something else to occupy your interest outside of a game than to put effort into thinking of something to occupy it inside the game. All players will eventually quit. That's as certain as death and taxes. What we need to do is to make sure there is adequate infrastructure in place to continuously replace those players.

FYI, the number of Polish players is also on the decline now. Apparently, they have exhausted their current marketing strategies. The English population has been stable for several hundred turns now (English is back in the majority).

[tiddy ogg]

But back to the original question... Kwor's population has dropped so because the world has grown and the population has not... They're all building boats and going off to Burgeo.

[Racetyme]

Well, a lot of people are migrating, but thats not really the problem. When I run across an oldbie's character, (I can tell a lot of the time) it is fun. But so many of the people around are just not talking. The most interesting things going on for me are not in the locations with the most people, but in the locations where there are interesting people. I try to make all of my characters interesting, but some of them just aren't. And thats the problem. There aren't enough interesting characters around, if you are around an interesting character, your character becomes interesting as well.

[formerly known as hf]

English player intake has dropped - massively.

And it is marketing - the massive Polish increase is not due to there 'being no other options' for Polish speakers - many MMORPGS are played by Poles. They had and have an excellent word-of-mouth system, which the English group have lost, or maybe never had.

I'd be interested to see if the through-flow of English language players has decreased. If it hasn't, and it's the attrition rates which have changed - than that's much more worrying - it indicates the game is no longer attractive. But I'm not sure that's the case

(Although attrition rates in more established players do seemt o be getting worse)

[SekoETC]

What this game needs is an empire of slavers. If people are just sleeping in towns, they need someone to activate them. First we need a charismatic person with a dream that requires a lot of building and manufacturing. Situated in a good location where resources can be gathered or found nearby. It should also be easy to defend. Get some followers, convince them that sleepers are dirt and this group is bound to win. Then you go kidnap some people from nearby towns. For this you'll need vehicles which might be troublesome, but ships are still easy to build. Kill anyone with crowbars. Be prepared with a lot of healing food. Then you take the people to your headquarters but you should have enough people to have someone awake around each travelling tick to switch course if the prisoners are trying to switch it back towards their hometown. Three or four guards from different timezones should be enough. But unless you're taking prisoners one by one, this rules out even the biggest land vehicle, you would need a ship and unless you want to use a longboat, you need access to a harbor. Also you should convince prisoners that there's no way of escaping because you're going to need resource gatherers. Hitting them until they're helpless might do the trick but after that their efficiency is very low.