Animals

[Doug R.]

Greetings! I'm the new Resource Department Shepherd, charged with keeping watch over the animals in Cantr. I'm starting this thread so I can get feedback from all the language groups about the animal situations on their islands. Your feedback is appreciated, even if (especially if) everything is perfect (if it's not broke, don't fix it).

[tiddy ogg]

Well you'll get flooded by wimps complaining about too many elephants and wolves, but there are very few animals of any kind in the Plaekur region. But maybe that's deliberate.

[Doug R.]

The problem with Plaekur is that it is a non-forest blocked by forest, meaning that non-forest animals can't migrate in from outside. I suspect that this will be a problem in Akypor, which is in the same situation, and also in the islolated forests on Treefeather (Zhift Forest/Seatown Forest), I'll put it on my "things to look into" list.

As you mentioned, these problems could be by design, and that's something I need to ascertain.

[TatteredShoeLace]

K Island needs the ability to shear sheep for wool without killing them.

And we need sheep back.

If domestication is on the horizon, it would be nice to have a fresh start with extinct species like the crocodile from the old english islands.

[Doug R.]

I did notice the sheep problem on K-isle. How are you K-islanders feeling about your Buffalo levels?

[formerly known as hf]

I like them. The herds of Kwor are a feature of the island...

Omeo wolves / goats have personally been an issue for me.

I'm undecided on Burgeo. It's dangerous, as mostly uninhabited lands should be, but some gorilla / wolf / bear populations of certain locations seem to be above a level where the location could ever be settled, bar a massive influx of armed people... Only brief visits with lots of healing foods are possible...

Although the elephants aren't so bad - was their aggression reduced?

[sanchez]

[copied from RD forum]
It's not species, it's regional. If there is a way to reseed Western Treefeather and the old Polish Islands without impacting Aki, Burgeo or French Zone, you'll have a solution. And there is no such thing imo as too many hawks.

[Doug R.]

I answered this in the RD forum. This topic is for the players to list animal problems and concerns that their characters are facing, not for debate of population control theory.

As to your hawks, they are problematic. Each location has a maximum population that it can support. Animal numbers that exceed this maximum trigger an overpopulation response that increases natural animal mortality and migration. Overcrowded hawks (or Buffalos) can potentially trigger this response and take down all the other animals in the location with them, further degrading balance.

[sanchez]

So for example when we get too many bears we get fewer wolves, but also fewer rabbits and pelicans? Are tortoises partly responsible for pigeon extinction?

[Doug R.]

So for example when we get too many bears we get fewer wolves, but also fewer rabbits and pelicans?

Having too many of any animal in a location shortens the lifespans and increase the odds of travel for every animal in that location. So, if you have 250 scarabs and 3 rabbits, those 3 rabbits now have shorter lives and an increased chance to leave the location.

[sanchez]

And this is adjusted for locations as in towns, or do these rules operate regionally?

[Doug R.]

The over-population trigger only affects the animals in that location (i.e. town). Once the animal leaves, or the population drops below the overcrowding threshold, these adjustments no longer apply. The rules do not apply regionally but are location specific.

[Solfius]

what you really need is some kind of food chain so that animals control their own levels through feeding/starvation, also those overpopulation rules should be animal specific,

i guess it comes down to server load?

Food and predators are two main ways nature keeps animal populations in check, I think that without them it will take much intervention to keep situations acceptable

[Cantryjczyk]

Here is a translation of some of the discussin in the Polish forum on this topic. We have many concerns about animals which are not the same as in the English Zone.

In Bojrad mountains there are no animals at all. I dont know if that is from begining, or they ware killed. Maybe there are not so many animals that can survive in mountainous terrain?

I think there are too few birds, or that they reproduce too slowly. We need more variety, like partridges and pheasants. Are there chickens?

And of course they are troubles with animals in FIC island. This island is one big failure. When I start playing 30 cantr years ago, then they were about 2-3 animals per location. They were killed off, and since then there has been nothing. Now is little beter, there are even groups with two horses or two sheep But most often there is no more than one animal per location, or none. I recall hearing that it is impossible to fix this.

Finally, I can say that to live with animals is not as bad as without. Sin some palces there are so few of them while in others people die from massive attacks.

[Cantryjczyk]

W moim odczuciu wlasnie to co pisal Keisha to sa wazne spostrzezenia, dla ktorych ten temat powstal. Ja od siebie dodalbym, ze uwazam system zwierzat za zbyt prosty. Nie sprawdza sie on i ma za malo wsplnego z naturalnymi systemami kontroli populacji.
In my opinion Keisha makes a good point. I can add that the animal system in Cantr is too simple. It does not work well and is unnatural.

Uwazam ze zwierzeta powinny byc bardziej lokalne. Czyli jesli w jakims miejscu przez kilkadziesiat lat sa pod ochrona, ich liczba powinna rosnac. Teraz tak nie jest. Sa miejsca w ktorych liczba zwierzat wacha sie od 1 do kilkunastu, bez zadnego wytlumaczenia. Czasem cos przyjdzie, czasem cos sobie pojdzie, rozrodu nie da sie stwierdzic, tylko wachania liczby ktore do niczego nie prowadza.
I believe that animals should be controlled more locally. If protection is enforced in a location for decades, increases in population should be evident. That is not the case now. There are locations where numbers vary between 1 and teens, but the rules governing this are not apparent. Animals migrate, breed, population changes, but it leads to no improvement overall.

Najbardziej irytujaca jest calkowita bezsilnosc w stosunku do zwierzat. Mozna tylko na nie polowac lub nie polowac. Innych mozliwosci nie ma. A gdy jest ich duzo, ciagle polowania niewiele pomagaja, sa miejsca gdzie zwierzat jest kilka setek, w tym dziesiatki sloni, dzikow, gepardow itp. A calkowita ochrona w innych miejscach, gdzie jest zwierzat niewiele, tez nic nie daje. Przez dziesiatki lat moze byc ich rownie malo, a ich istnienie nawet nie daje zadnej nadzieji na przyszlosc ani zadnych mozliwosci, zupelnie jakby ich wcale nie bylo.
Most frustrating for us is feeling helpless about the populations. We can hunt, or ban hunting. There are no other possibilities (such as farming). If there are too many animals, hunting does not seem to help. There are areas overrun with elephants, leopards, boars. And places with very few animals at all, and full protection laws seem to change nothing. After decades of enforced conservation there are still very few animals and no hope for change in the future. There are no possibilites to use animals and anything requiring them is useless in these places.

Mam wrazenie, ze wiekszosc polskiej strefy miejsci sie w jednej z tych dwoch skrajnosci. Natomiast zloty srodek sie zdaza, moje angielskie postacie sie z nim spotykaja, w polskiej strefie jest z tym gorzej. Skrajnosci moze i sa ciekawe i swiadcza o lokalnych roznicach, ale bez przesady. Polska strefa od poczatku jest na stratnej pozycji gdy nasze zwierzeta byly popsute, teraz jest lepiej ale nie dosc dobrze.
Most of the Polish Zone experiences this. There can be a balance, but few Polish see it. In English Zone, perhaps. Maybe extremes in animals populations are interesting and create nice local differences, but it's gone too far. In the Polish Zone from the beginning when we experienced limited populations due to a bug we have seen too little recovery. It's very bad there.

Mysle, ze trzeba by troche popodkrecac sklonnosci zwierzat do rozrodu i do migracji i powiazac je z iloscia zwierzat w stadzie w danym miejscu (niekoniecznie liniowo). Powinny zwierzeta chetniej sie "osiedlac" i "zakladac rodziny" w miejscach gdzie nie jest im zbyt tloczno (gdzie nie ma wielu zwierzat ich gatunku).
I think animal migration and reproduction should be connected to regional populations. Migration should be limited where there are few others of the species, so they make families in places without overcrowding.

A polowania na wiekszym stadzie zmniejszalyby liczbe zwierzat, tym samym pobudzajac pozostale do lepszego rozrodu. W zbyt duzych stadach przyrost powinien byc mniejszy a sklonnosci do migracji wieksze. W malych wrecz odwrotnie.
If hunting large populations reduces them, reproduction of other species should be faster. In large packs of animals, there should be less reproduction and higher chance of migration.

Nie zaszkodziloby tez podliczyc ilosc zwierzat na poszczegolnych wyspach, okreslic jakas minimalna oczekiwana srednia liczbe zwierzat przypadajaca na jedna lokacje, i jesli cala wyspa jest zbyt uboga w zwierzeta, sztucznie ich dorzucic do minimalnego sensownego stanu dajacego nadzieje na rownowage ekoligiczna na danej wyspie.
It is a good idea to calculate numbers of animals on islands, and some minimal number of average animals per location. If a whole island is too poor with animal life, they should be increased to reach numbers that will give a chance for minimal ecological safety on that island.