Cantr II Discussion Forum

viktor wrote:does this mean a pile of aluminum sitting in a locked storage room would rot?

what measures can characters in game do to stop this? do we have to build storage containers inside the room to store any and all resources to prevent rot?

please this is an urgent question.

finding out later could be game breaking.

If it were possible, then this change would serve no purpose. Storages don't rot themselves, so it would again mean a one-time cost to avoid permanent effect. It's something that hurts Cantr for a long time.
The only way to avoid rot is to use raws for something meaningful.

Hmmm, the rot change does destroy one or two long term strategies by my characters. Can we find info about the new rot rates in the wiki, or is this a case of foig?

Beware everybody, be sure you gather a little more resources than you need, otherwise you may find yourself a gram short when taking too long to make things!

Interesting method of newspawn trolling that is now possible based on this, that towns can do nothing to avoid.

Wolfsong wrote:Interesting method of newspawn trolling that is now possible based on this, that towns can do nothing to avoid.

By using newspawns to block project slots, either by building machinery or spamming projects?

Can't you just drag people off projects to block that (as well as imprison or kill them)?

Grab resources that hit the ground on completion because someone can't pick it up, put them all into a project that cannot be reasonably completed. When cancelled to get the resources back, according to what I'm reading above, it will suffer rot as if it had been on the ground the whole time. Projects can't be cancelled by others for a set period of time, even if a newspawn is killed. Means you can guarantee resource loss no matter what.

Wolfsong wrote: Projects can't be cancelled by others for a set period of time, even if a newspawn is killed. Means you can guarantee resource loss no matter what.

Interesting scenario, but there would be no reasonable amount of rot within that short of a time frame.

Joshuamonkey wrote:

Wolfsong wrote: Projects can't be cancelled by others for a set period of time, even if a newspawn is killed. Means you can guarantee resource loss no matter what.

Interesting scenario, but there would be no reasonable amount of rot within that short of a time frame.

The other pretty simple scenario, but not presented here, is a newspawn looking around for old projects in the town nobody was working on and maliciously cancelling them. If the project is extremely old, then it might bring visible losses. But the rot after project cancellation won't be applied for the time before the introduction of the rot system, so the already existing projects will hardly be affected.

In which case, as I said before, it's an insignificant change that won't really affect how the game works on any meaningful level. Time is better spent improving new player retention than arbitrary number tweaks to try and foster a return to the "old" Cantr.

Interesting stuff! I hadn't even thought about that aspect of project cancellation. I'm personally not too concerned about that. Based on my personal experience, the malicious use of the game mechanics isn't common enough to really impact the game as a whole. Mind you, I could see my management oriented characters really suffering if they did encounter a troll using that tactic.

My concern is how intense the rot actually is! I also really hope it is not a find out in game situation and that rot stat will be added to the wiki. Until more info is available, I'm not sure if this will be net negative or positive.

Wolfsong wrote:In which case, as I said before, it's an insignificant change that won't really affect how the game works on any meaningful level. Time is better spent improving new player retention than arbitrary number tweaks to try and foster a return to the "old" Cantr.

The main impact of the resource rot will probably be on 1000-dow resource piles that are unused for rl years. See the 'largest piles'-list for examples. However, without numbers this is all just guessing.

Until people figure out the right gram limit to lower the rate of rot and just separate their piles across multiple rooms. It's not like most towns don't have 20+ rooms/buildings they could do this with. If it is as slow as suggested for small piles, the change is negligible.

Edit: If the stated purpose of this is to encourage trade, it actually hurts it for the same reason as above. Vehicles are single rooms, and ships can only have a fixed amount (plus infinite nesting sloops/longboats/dinghies, I guess, but that kills speed) - so the end result is that towns can separate piles of large resources to slow rot down, but traders will have to wear a higher rot rate.

Greek wrote: ...the rot after project cancellation won't be applied for the time before the introduction of the rot system, so the already existing projects will hardly be affected.

So if people were to sink their resources in storage into several medium to large projects right now with no intention of ever finishing them, to use as a semipermanent storage solution free from rot, that would be acceptable?

Greek wrote: Storages don't rot themselves, so it would again mean a one-time cost to avoid permanent effect. It's something that hurts Cantr for a long time.
The only way to avoid rot is to use raws for something meaningful.

What if make containers to save resources but make cost by need of repair of containers from time to time? It could be win-win.

I hate this kind of scheming and conniving and trying to circumvent the positive intentions of game changes. Only wealthy, older characters have the wherewithal to even think about this kind of BS while the average player is left floundering aimlessly and at the mercy of the powerful no matter where they go.

This is why characters should have limits to how long they can live so the wealth and power has at least a chance of being redistributed.

This sort of "scheming and conniving" is literally what Cantr is to simulationists, though - disregarding roleplay, this is how every single simmer plays the game. It's about crunching numbers and efficiencies. It's why I'm positing these questions. If an idea is implemented that has been poorly thought out, or hasn't been thought out at all, then it will be abused; that's in the nature of how players think and act. Look at when people used to pull resources into an unlocked room to have total immunity to being attacked when raiding a town, or most of the dragging mechanics re: combat. Look at why tea was nerfed, or how multiple people across the earlier days of Cantr managed to wipe out entire towns full of people. Look at when locks were implemented before crowbars, or any logical way to remove locks.

It's not about what characters do, and that behavior being immoral or bad or a sign of the complacent wealthy upper crust. It's what players do in video games. Good developers need to think about and react to these potential problems before they become problems.