Children

[Sparkle]

Oh and don't be to surprised if when you decide your character doesn't see the baby and you express that your character doesn't that people might find your character a little crazy.

You know what for all of you who think Rping 'babys or anything else dealing with what humans are really like' is something that should not be done. @#$% you!

I'm tired of seeing the BS some of you people put out.

*Claps and cheers* You tell um, glasswalker!

[Chrissy]

Cantr is a game, with a format. It is a program, already constructed. It's just the same as popping any game into any gaming console. There is a set format to which you play by rules that exist within the game. If I play spyro, I don't imagine a baby spyro flying next to him. It doesn't exist within that game. To my understanding there are roleplaying forums that are open and you make up anything as you go. That's great. It sounds interesting. That is not Cantr. There is a format to which we follow, there is knowledge that our characters are given so they know what is real. Babies are not part of that reality yet.

Religion is also something that you can't see but that is there. Ideas, are allowed to be free, but pretending an animate object is there, when it's not, is not the same thing.

Chrissy

[g1asswa1ker]

Way wrong Chrissy. Cantr is what you call a simulater. It's not totally open nor is it totally closed. Cantr is nothing like spyro. First off spyro has a set plot line which you must follow. Same with Final Fantasy, Mario Brothers and many other games. Now, cantr is not totally like those free range Roleplaying games. There are guidlines. things you can RP and things you can't RP. You can't RP having a glass bottle if you don't have a glass bottle. But a glass bottle is something programers can program into the game rather easily. But a baby is not very easy for someone to just program in. So, Rping a baby is more appropriate. And this is something that you and those like you need to understand.

[Sico van der Meer]

There are guidlines. things you can RP and things you can't RP. You can't RP having a glass bottle if you don't have a glass bottle. But a glass bottle is something programers can program into the game rather easily. But a baby is not very easy for someone to just program in. So, Rping a baby is more appropriate. And this is something that you and those like you need to understand.

Hmm, now you are making it difficult to me, Glasswalker. I don't understand this argument at all, to be honest. What's the difference between a glass bottle and a baby? Is it the same difference as between a hot air balloon and a gnome?

[Missy]

I must be losing my mind.

I think thats a nice perspective Chrissy.



However crazy characters may look to another character for roleplaying the babies, the characters who had the babies of course believe they've given birth and lug around their offspring.

My opinion has just been swayed. I don't think it should be allowed, yet, the babies are already in existence to some characters. I can't have my character pretend there is no child when she believes she had one, just because my opinion is differant now--than it was when she had it.

And then on the other hand, permission was given. Is rp'ing babies against the basics of cantr? yes and no. Technically you can't see that a character is grinning since that isn't part of the game itself either. No? But, permission was given which can not be denied no matter how much some of you may wish it wasn't given. Right or wrong? Doesn't matter in the case of already existing children.

I believe the PD needs to discuss whether or not babies should be allowed to continue to pop up in the game in this manner.



[edit] I'll regret telling this story I'm sure! Though I must add, however incredibly ridiculous this may sound.. My friends and I used to play Mario Cart on super nintendo and have whoever we chose for drivers pick a spot in the game to consider their "home". We didn't race the characters, we drove around gathering coins or whatever, then my friend was like.."Hi missy" when she drove passed. THATS SO NOT The point of the game, nor is it intended to be played in such a way. But we did play it in such a way. Just because there really wasn't a home there or the idea of the game was to race, didn't mean our princess and toad mushroom didn't go to the beach to find a coin.

[Sico van der Meer]

By the way, may I request everyone to stay calm and behave polite? I have the impression some people are very emotionally involved with this topic, but please, this is still an open discussion forum, so let's respect all opinions without insulting anyone with a different opinion...

[Dark_Angel_04]

Oh and don't be to surprised if when you decide your character doesn't see the baby and you express that your character doesn't that people might find your character a little crazy.

You know what for all of you who think Rping 'babys or anything else dealing with what humans are really like' is something that should not be done. @#$% you!

I'm tired of seeing the BS some of you people put out.

Huh?

Children do not exist in Cantr. Cantr is not the real world. It is not a given, the things we have in the real world, are also in Cantr. What is there, is there. It's been programed in. And everything else is imaginary. If my character doesn't see a baby, there is no baby.

Chrissy

To YOUR character and to you as a player who is imposing your own beliefs onto your characters. But When you have a community who does see the baby, babies, children then it would seem as such that Your CHARACTER Would BE DEEMED INSANE!

[glitterdown]

I think Chrissy makes the most rational arguement that can me made in terms of babies. However, since this is such an emotionally charged issue, it appears that the most rational things don't rule-out here (as Glasswalker's Glass-bottle/baby argument shows, the primary difference between babies and glass bottles is that it's tough to get seriously emotionally attached to glass bottles, or make long-term life-plans for them. This isn't completely rational, but it IS human).

However this arguement, is just silliness:

To YOUR character and to you as a player who is imposing your own beliefs onto your characters. But When you have a community who does see the baby, babies, children then it would seem as such that Your CHARACTER Would BE DEEMED INSANE!

Let's supplement "babies" for anything else. Let's say, "Green Peanut Butter". Just because I fail to acknowledge YOUR community's, GPB, doesn't make me insane, even though the whole community sees and RP's it. Unlike the real-world, there is an objective reality to Cantr beyond our perceptions of the world through our character's actions - The Coding. Something is either programmed, or it is not (like Chrissy says). You cannot say, "Babies are programmed into Cantr! You can't see them, therefor you're insane." Because in fact (and rationally) the exact opposite is true, when we turn to the PHYSICAL CODING of Cantr. Once again, wanting something doesn't make it so. [edit] I'd challenge ANYONE to provide us examples of ANYTHING else in the game like babies, where people "pretend" they are actually there, and RP them as if they physically ARE, when in fact they are not coded into the game (And people don't treat them universally as if they're inasane).[/edit]

However, as i pointed out beforehand. This is not a completely rational issue. Can you objectively argue between the rational and irrational sides of an arguement? We seem to be trying, but I don't see us getting anywhere with it. And people are jsut getting worked up over it and causing each other undue stress.

Perhaps it's safest for the two sides to go their seperate ways, baby-lovers RP'ing babies (preferably in private areas with their spouses, or at LEAST keep the baby-RP to a decent minimum), and those who think un-programmed babies are just insanity will ignore those babies, and resist the temptation to spoil the game for the time being, until this issue can be resolved by the programmers.

[Dark_Angel_04]

See post in Do cantr women have periods...

[Dark_Angel_04]

In Cantr Peanut butter is green, Everything is green.

[Slowness_Incarnate]

What the O.O! Ok..I rarely post but this is getting annoying. What is with the imaginary babies? Long ago it was said that we should not add things into the game that do not exist. That was said when "cups" and "mugs" were used by Nelad in Doryiskom. That was used to hold this imaginary "skooma". After it was said that people should not add things into the game that don't exist, those imaginary "articles" were taken out and never heard of again. I think the same should happen to these...babies. It's annoying, it's not really in the game, they are a waste of time to acknowledge and the chars that do it are INSANE. They are seeing things that are not there,it's not cute or funny. It is absurd.

[kroner]

yeah. everyone debunked rping cigars and mead. this isn't any different... except it's far worse. not only are imaginary babies bad because they're at odds with game mechanics, but unlike cigars and mead, the problems will multiply. what happens when these babies grow up? are you going to start rping people that don't exist? just take a moment to consider just how stupid it is to start down that road.

[Dark_Angel_04]

Kroner as was said before, It was permitted for the players to keep a history of events from the "Childs birth" to the time a person Spawned, Completly unknown player handed the history and an already developed character to take off with, If the Child decides to be a thief and run and get killed it will be a loss dealt with and RP'd when the time comes. 20 cantr years of history Mind you. A lot of thought went into the aspect and the questioning of hey do I really want to do this... I answerd myself yes I do. I am tired of Argueing about this, It will go no where. So there are strong oppinions on both sides about this. All I have to say is MY characters who have been introduced to babies, and have babies. will continue to do so until told to kill them by Jos himself. I do not care what the rest of you think anymore and I will no longer stress myself out over such nonsense. I really like Cantr and I love to Role Play, But today because of this whole arguement, I almost walked and killed all of my characters only keeping my staff duties. There will be no more comments about this topic and any other topic like it by me, as it is just a wasted time spent on who is wrong and who is right when in fact in all of our minds we are right. I have said before, I have a life outside the computer and when I let a silly little discussion get to me so much I would rather not even play.

[SekoETC]

Playing games unusual way: I had fun in Fallout 2 arranging giant scorpion tail to a line though I knew they would vanish the moment I left the random encounter.

Things in Cantr that are not programmed: Have you ever thought about how people can carry water without containers? And what to the mountain goats eat? Not everything has to be programmed, people should think they exist just because it's the natural way of things. Otherwise we must program the million ants and other useless creatures, a sky full of billions of stars and so on... I think babies a thing that should be programmed in, because it's something so big and confusing. But I don't see why people cannot rp having spoons and mugs and such. This is what makes the game flexible and ...... something else.
I've really been thinking Cantr was the game (or world) I've been looking for for so long, but if people keep splitting hairs I guess I must learn programming and make my own game.

[kroner]

As far as I know, cantr water is a solid or a very viscous liquid and cantr goats don't eat. If you want to rp that goats eat grass, then fine. It has little or no effect on gameplay. Babies on the other hand do. In addition, they require everyone else to "believe" as well for it to work properly. That's more than my character will accept and it shouldn't be required of people.