Thinking about quitting.....

[Marian]

Discussions like this are good. I remember once coming across a review of the game that had very negative remarks. The writer's point was that since the staff members were an active part of the game, and used their power to have certain biases and acts of favoritism due to IG reasons, and that there was little to no accountability. This review was written before I even started playing, so I have no idea what it was even about, but this is a clear example that people do discuss PD interactions with players. Visibility tells both sides of the story as opposed to the singularity of the disgruntled player. It could only make the staff look better than this sort of one-sided story. And if there are issues that need to be addressed, it gives players a way to speak up and defend themselves.

Honestly I've never understood the insistence on 'privacy' because I'm pretty sure a person can't violate their own privacy? If they want to talk about it, let 'em, and at that point any PD members would be just as welcome to share their own side of things like in any other discussion. The situation we have now is really more like censorship, and I'm not sure what it accomplishes besides frustrating and angering the players being targeted and making everyone else assume the worst about the people controlling the information.

[Auryn]

Discussions like this are good. I remember once coming across a review of the game that had very negative remarks. The writer's point was that since the staff members were an active part of the game, and used their power to have certain biases and acts of favoritism due to IG reasons, and that there was little to no accountability. This review was written before I even started playing, so I have no idea what it was even about, but this is a clear example that people do discuss PD interactions with players. Visibility tells both sides of the story as opposed to the singularity of the disgruntled player. It could only make the staff look better than this sort of one-sided story. And if there are issues that need to be addressed, it gives players a way to speak up and defend themselves.

Honestly I've never understood the insistence on 'privacy' because I'm pretty sure a person can't violate their own privacy? If they want to talk about it, let 'em, and at that point any PD members would be just as welcome to share their own side of things like in any other discussion. The situation we have now is really more like censorship, and I'm not sure what it accomplishes besides frustrating and angering the players being targeted and making everyone else assume the worst about the people controlling the information.

There's always been a policy of not discussing ongoing investigations by the staff. It is absolutely censorship. Typically, any negative remarks on the forum at all are met with a deletion and disciplinary actions against the poster. Hell, even my statements here might be considered an attack, so I wouldn't be surprised to wake up in the morning to it deleted, but this needs to be discussed.

[iavatus]

Discussions like this are good. ...
Visibility tells both sides of the story as opposed to the singularity of the disgruntled player. It could only make the staff look better than this sort of one-sided story. And if there are issues that need to be addressed, it gives players a way to speak up and defend themselves.

Said it much better then I had a hope of, Auryn. Staff are people too, and also volunteers. But so are the players, in the sense that we choose to spend our time and energies in the game. Respect, and transparency, and communication (social simulator, after all ), would IMHO be a much better system then the current one.

Not least because the CR, is vague. Even the clarifications.

[Marian]

Said it much better then I had a hope of, Auryn. Staff are people too, and also volunteers. But so are the players, in the sense that we choose to spend our time and energies in the game. Respect, and transparency, and communication (social simulator, after all ), would IMHO be a much better system then the current one.

Not least because the CR, is vague. Even the clarifications.

This, pretty much. What else are forums for but people airing out their opinions on things? And at the end of the day, it's just a game, and everyone involved is a player and a person, contributing in their own way. An atmosphere of secrecy and distrust is frankly, extremely off putting and only alienates people and drives a wedge in an already too-small community.

[Optimus Christ]

*returns with coffee and popcorn, sitting back in a chair and relaxing* Wait for it.... *notices the silence* What? Last time I spoke out on this I was banned from the forums for a month. I just came here to read the comments before they were deleted.

[Auryn]

*returns with coffee and popcorn, sitting back in a chair and relaxing* Wait for it.... *notices the silence* What? Last time I spoke out on this I was banned from the forums for a month. I just came here to read the comments before they were deleted.

At this point, I could care less about repercussions. I'm sorry I wasn't able to speak up and support you the first time. And thanks. I had forgotten who I saw speak up last time. Good to know who it was! Mind sharing what your point was the last time? They can't ban us all at this point. (Knock on wood.)

[Optimus Christ]

*returns with coffee and popcorn, sitting back in a chair and relaxing* Wait for it.... *notices the silence* What? Last time I spoke out on this I was banned from the forums for a month. I just came here to read the comments before they were deleted.

At this point, I could care less about repercussions. I'm sorry I wasn't able to speak up and support you the first time. And thanks. I had forgotten who I saw speak up last time. Good to know who it was! Mind sharing what your point was the last time? They can't ban us all at this point. (Knock on wood.)

Don't underestimate the size of their ban hammers... And while I'm glad everyone is finally speaking up about it, I think they wouldn't really care unless it was a community wide boycott. And I doubt that will happen. So I will just sit here, drink my coffee, eat my popcorn, and wait for them to ban me, because I said ban hammer. At that point, I would have to call it quits.

[Marian]

Uh, pretty sure the mere ideation of more transparency and communication from fellow players wouldn't be enough to get any threads frantically deleted or people banned. Unless the situation is way, way worse than anyone thought, you guys might be overreacting a tiny bit.

[Optimus Christ]

Uh, pretty sure the mere ideation of more transparency and communication from fellow players wouldn't be enough to get any threads frantically deleted or people banned. Unless the situation is way, way worse than anyone thought, you guys might be overreacting a tiny bit.

Not overreacting at all... Trust me. People have bad days. People with power who have bad days, everyone knows it...and better yet, can keep it secret.

[Auryn]

Uh, pretty sure the mere ideation of more transparency and communication from fellow players wouldn't be enough to get any threads frantically deleted or people banned. Unless the situation is way, way worse than anyone thought, you guys might be overreacting a tiny bit.

Not overreacting at all... Trust me. People have bad days. People with power who have bad days, everyone knows it...and better yet, can keep it secret.

I remember it as well. This was very much the case. This is exactly why transparency is so important.

[Optimus Christ]

Uh, pretty sure the mere ideation of more transparency and communication from fellow players wouldn't be enough to get any threads frantically deleted or people banned. Unless the situation is way, way worse than anyone thought, you guys might be overreacting a tiny bit.

Not overreacting at all... Trust me. People have bad days. People with power who have bad days, everyone knows it...and better yet, can keep it secret.

I remember it as well. This was very much the case. This is exactly why transparency is so important.

I do remember a point and time where the happy endgame for me was to have a character of mine mentioned in the RP praise thread. Now, I just hope I get through the day without being banned, hoping staff have a good day and that I wasn't the one with a target on my back.

[Rebma]

I have to admit I was surprised to see my comments on the matter still here at all. But I'm glad they are, and that this discussion is taking place. Transparency, accountability, both things that would definitely help curb what's been known to happen.

[Auryn]

I'd like to see the staff's response to this discussion. Should it be moved to a separate thread? It's definitely gone off topic, other than frustration over staff actions and the lack of accountability definitely being a reason why people leave. I wouldn't be surprised if the only response would be a locking of the thread, deletion of posts, etc.

[Optimus Christ]

I'd like to see the staff's response to this discussion. Should it be moved to a separate thread? It's definitely gone off topic, other than frustration over staff actions and the lack of accountability definitely being a reason why people leave. I wouldn't be surprised if the only response would be a locking of the thread, deletion of posts, etc.

And if it happens, just proves we were right.

[Marian]

I'd like to see the staff's response to this discussion. Should it be moved to a separate thread? It's definitely gone off topic, other than frustration over staff actions and the lack of accountability definitely being a reason why people leave.

I'd say it's still on topic for exactly those reasons. Players are leaving over this, or at least trying to leave even if they're not being allowed. (Which is messed up all on its own level...) One thing I think we, as fellow players have a right to know is if that kind of thing is abnormal, or actually standard practice here and just getting continually swept under the rug by the censorship.

And again in the interests of respect and transparency and just plain common sense, I really, really wish the rules of the game were posted somewhere more clearly, as there are apparently some very important, unwritten ones I've never even heard of after playing the game for years, that new players are nevertheless expected to fully understand after only a few months.

The game has lost a lot of joy and color in the last week, but at the very least, simple steps could be taken to ensure that everyone is on the same page from now on so that this doesn't happen again.