Machinery on ship

[madfish]

I believe I clearly stated that there was /not/ a choice. When it's a coincidence that even nice friendly people will harass you even when you don't do anything, it's not your choice to be pushed away to a ship on the sea. It's because people in Cantr, for some reason, feel the need to bicker with new people over nothing and run them off. it's not necessarily that person's fault and they may be forced to live away from others and can't find an abandoned town. And if they were looking for an abandoned town instead of staying on their ship, trying to make people who feel the way you do happy, they would starve on the way anyway.

You still have a choice to live on land or not. Like I said, find another place to live. There are plenty of empty places in cantr.

And if they were looking for an abandoned town instead of staying on their ship, trying to make people who feel the way you do happy, they would starve on the way anyway.

That's simply not true though is it. How can these people survive on their ship if they cant make a trip to one of the countless abandoned places on cantr?

And even in the situation where someone has absolutely no choice and they must do this why do they need to be catered for? Someone may have absolutely no choice but be killed by an invading tribe should we cater for them in the cantr mechanics too? Cantr life is tough, shouldn't be any different. If you were ostracised from society in real life you would have to live with the fact you were going to have to make some sacrifices.

[masterekat]

...I'll restate what I just said to miirkaelisaar. Why can't these people who choose to live on a ship not live with the sacrifices they have to make to do it? They already have a great benefit in that they can travel where they want, why shouldn't that come with disadvantages?

The people who choose to live in towns have to put up with disruptive newspawns, lonely work inside buildings etc. Why should sailors get off scot free? It's not fair for these boat communities to want all the good parts of living on land with none of the bad parts.

Fair enough. But I still maintain the position that more machines on ships would benefit everyone, not only the seafarers. The faster they move, the faster trade moves, the faster criminals get caught, the faster news gets spread, etc.... Now, if we're talking about pirates, then, yes, you have a point there as well. But maybe a few pirates are what is needed to keep the land dwellers awake.

[madfish]

They wont be very awake when they have been killed by pirates. You know if all that pirates had to do is raid, kill, steal resources, undock, do all the work they needed to do at sea with the machines they needed: rinse and repeat. That's a fairly significant advantage you've given pirates. They already have plenty of advantage.

I think it;s pretty clear that the call for more machines on ships comes down to the fact that seafarers want to have their cake and eat it too.

[RedQueen.exe]

The people who choose to live in towns have to put up with disruptive newspawns, lonely work inside buildings etc. Why should sailors get off scot free? It's not fair for these boat communities to want all the good parts of living on land with none of the bad parts.

That's not accurate, as they do have other bad parts. In addition to not being able to process most resources, you are not able to gather resources.

Also:
*When they enter towns, which then inevitably have to, they have to trust each and every town to not lock the harbor door behind them, kill them, and rob them blind. Towns at no point necessitate require being separated from one's property.
*Hey remember when someone broke a town's single central lock and drove off with it, along with all the town's machinery and docked vehicles? Neither do I.
*Boat groups have no ability to carry land vehicles for venturing inland, and are entirely dependent on proper shore economies existing in order to access resources from landlocked towns.
*Boats don't have consistent neighbors which they can rely upon for help and trade.
*Boat crews don't have the ability to separate from each other at any point when disagreements break out, which can make people a bit nervous arguing with the captain.
*Boat crews don't have a persistent chance of spawning newspawns to replace their dying members.
*It is much easier to get lost traveling by sea than it is by land.
*Boats do not have access to animals.
*Boats cannot rely on being able withing radio range of others for help, etc.
*Boats do not have people come seeking THEM out for trade, like towns do.

I'm sure there are more, but at any rate it is not the case that this is the last advantage that towns have over boats.

[RedQueen.exe]

And as far as pirates go, I was under the impression that we were trying to neuter hit and run combat at some point. Where is that at?

[masterekat]

Not to mention, I'd imagine that it's pretty hard to get together a group of pirates that outnumbers the amount of people in a coastal town. Doesn't much matter if you make your weaponry on board or in a town. All they would really need is one weapon if they are going to use that much teamwork anyway.


You've given me about six new things to worry about, Red.

[miirkaelisaar]

Well, all debates aside. I just want to know what I can build on a ship, everything I can build on a ship. Didn't really post to get opinions on my character's lifestyle. Considering the lifestyles most Cantrians choose I'm the cream of the crop =P So I just want to know what I can build on a ship please. And thank you.

[RedQueen.exe]

Not to mention, I'd imagine that it's pretty hard to get together a group of pirates that outnumbers the amount of people in a coastal town. Doesn't much matter if you make your weaponry on board or in a town. All they would really need is one weapon if they are going to use that much teamwork anyway.


You've given me about six new things to worry about, Red.

I feel I was put here to spread doubt and uncertainty, lol. If the situation was reversed I'm sure I'd find myself defending the imbalanced advantages of boat life. It's like I can't help myself. I think I'm just pendantically insistent on seeing qualifiers, which half the time I wind up leaving out myself.

At least I know I have a problem. That's step 1, right?

[masterekat]

Heh...I'm like that myself. I can usually see both sides of a situation. Something I must've picked up from that semester on debate team.


Anyway...would this list be accurate?

Apothecary table
Bow stringer
Campstove
Cask
Coal oven
Cotton gin
Curing tub
Deck grill
Desiccator
Drop spindle
Earthenware flowerpot
Earthenware windowbox
Gas oven
Iron bucket
Kitchen table
Loom
Makisu
Manual grain grinder
Mixing bowl
Oven
Pot still
Press
Rope machine
Salting barrel
Shaving horse
Simple cotton gin
Simple loom
Simple twiner
Small fishing net
Small kiln
Smoker
Solar still
Spindle
Stone table
String jig
Twiner
Wooden bucket


Basically foods, healing foods, cloth, thin and medium rope, and some ranged weapons are possible on a ship (provided you've found the resources). Metals, glass, melee weapons, thick rope and making anything earthenware are no gos. Also, water is extremely difficult to obtain unless you build like four solar stills.

[RedQueen.exe]

If that is accurate, lets get it on the wiki. I had the same question that Miirk had at multiple points before.

[masterekat]

If that is accurate, lets get it on the wiki. I had the same question that Miirk had at multiple points before.

So have I. I had half of that list sitting around in OneNote already. The wiki will tell you which machines you can't put on a vehicle, but it would be nice to have that list all on one page (a separate category or whatever it's called). Unfortunately I know next to nothing about wiki editing.

[ShadowWolf]

If your worried about pirates making stuff on the sea to raid you... kinda pointless. The lack of useful work on ships has lead me to attack towns. keeps you alert, keep your blades sharp.. and why have to work when you already take what you want.

[Arenti]

Because not everyone gets fun out of ruining other chars hopes and dreams and plans and relations, etc.

[ShadowWolf]

My point was that the machines don't really affect the pirates. It does howevee affect sailors making stuff to trade, explorers heading to new lands...

[Arenti]

Ahhh yes that sounds different. my misunderstanding then and yes with that I fully agree. My mistake, well some say It's always my mistake lol. The only thing pirates will care about on a ship is how fast it goes, so about sails.