Cantr Combat System

[SekoETC]

Hey, missing has nothing to do with physical strenght! Also I seem to remember that it has nothing to do with skills either (?) but the same random chance remains for everyone.
(This wasn't me then, if I miss at an execution, I'll drag the person back inside. But it might happen.)

[N-Aldwitch]

One of my characters is so cruel.. (name-goes-here) physically, mentally and emotionally tortues (name-goes-here)'s prisoners to the point where they want to die, but then (name-goes-here) gives them incentives to live, ie 'I'll make you a reformed man, heal you, let you go, just serve your time, you can kill me in an assasination or what ever'.

[deadboy]

Actually there is -one- idea here that I like, which is the implementation of range. I think that you should be able to see furthur on roads, which is fairly realistic, but on the people page you should see

People:

Close to you:
Man in sixties
Man in fourties

Mid-range:
Bob
Jim
Woman in twenties

Far away:
Tim

Now, close range you could hit with any weapon, and you could whisper to

Mid range would take a throwing weapon like an apache star or a short range bow

Long range would take a longbow, a crossbow, or a recurve/composite recurve bow

I would also like to see heavy crossbows, with roughly +20% damage, but only mid-ranged.

This would allow for interesting road battles, with archers firing first at close ranged people, then sending them in.

It would also be interesting to include this in boats too, along with boat weapons such as cannons (And rams so that large boats cannot be defeated by small boats constantly docking and undocking), for more interesting sea battles

EDIT: I apoligise, I forgot to mention one point, which is that, to balance out short-range and long range weapons as many steel weapons are harder to make than bows, bows should have a reduced accuracy and power over range

[Marian]

I see a lot of discussion about ranged weapons, but I've never really been able to get behind it because everyone seems to want it so complicated.

If it was just something simple with clear rules like, only people with ranged weapons could shoot birds (this might actually lead to seeing more of the 'weird' but otherwise useless weapons like slingshots and boomerangs being made...), and only people with ranged weapons could shoot a person 1.) on a boat from a town, or 2.) in a town from a boat. or 3.) on a boat from another boat, then I might be for it.

[Joshuamonkey]

EDIT: I apoligise, I forgot to mention one point, which is that, to balance out short-range and long range weapons as many steel weapons are harder to make than bows, bows should have a reduced accuracy and power over range

Bows are hard to make...even composite recurve bows might not take iron or steel, but they are confusing and still take almost a year. Compound bows and crossbows on the other hand...though I do so your point that everyone would start making crossbows or even composite recurve bows in preferance of a sword.

[SekoETC]

Make it so that you cannot use bows in close range battle!! (That also includes inside buildings, or at least inside shacks and extensions and mud huts. You simply wouldn't have enough room to pull back.)

That would give a reason to carrying both long range and short range weapons.

[deadboy]

Ooooo..... I like that . Add this to having to "Equip" weapons, and some of the timing things that have been said and you've got some interesting situations, time the switch wrong and you could find yourself being cut down by sabres whilst your still fumbling around trying to reload your bow

[Joshuamonkey]

Enough room to pull back...sure we'll go with that.

[BZR]

As it was manetioned, I'd like toggleable automatic counter-atack

Maybe there sould be a "wary" state. It should be noticeable.

you see man in his twenties. He carefully observes you.

... or something like thet. This state should be toggleable at character description screen.

In case of attack from a person who you care at you should counterattack and lose less health because you're prepared for battle.

sorry for my english

[Nixit]

Ewwww.... equipping...

[deadboy]

I know it sounds a little like a hack-and-slash game concept but I cannot see why we shouldn't have equiping, it should take two hours, and it would solve the counter-attack problem as when training you could equip nothing so that you counter attack back gently, but when in the middle of a warzone you would equip a sabre etc so that you counter-attack hard. It would also allow for these bow, short-range battles that would be interesting. Although saying this I am not so sure I -want- counter-attacks, but they seem to be about to be accpeted so I figure this might as well make the idea a little better

[Nosajimiki]

I dont see a need for equiping to take time, but I see your point why it should happen. That way if someone is holding a waster you can see that and know any counterattack you'd recievewould be pretty useless and the person is realivly safe to hit. Not to mention it's useful at times to "take off" a shield.

Another thing about the ranged recomendations in close quarters. That would only count for indoors, right? In streets they'd be well ballenced with swords and the like?

I like that they would be better on the roads and in boat combat, and I think that making them useless indors would be a good ballence for that.

[Sicofonte]

It seems there is no nice way to make the combat absolutly realistic in Cantr, due to its slow-paced system. So don't try to implement each little aspect of real combat. It'd be frustrating.



It is obvious that a knife is faster than a battle axe, and this one faster than a crossbow, but the attack speed in game of each weapon can't be different form each other, since it is the amount of damage inflicted by combat turn (currently a day) what simulate that.

Make it so that you cannot use bows in close range battle!! (That also includes inside buildings, or at least inside shacks and extensions and mud huts. You simply wouldn't have enough room to pull back.)

Well... I am archer as a hobby. I have several modern compound and recurve bows, one small bow (of 1 piece) and two crossbows (un large and one for one hand). I can tell you that a crossbow never needs "rear" space to charge it (but a lot of strengh depending on the crossbow), a small bow can be shooted from inside a car, and the longest (common) bows, longer than two meters, need no more than a 150 cm from the arrow's tip to the archer's elbow.
Then, if a long bow can't be used in a mud, a battle axes and pilums can't be used too. If a compound bow can't be used there, neither the scimitars and sabres.



More data, just for the fun of writting it.

Heavy medieval crossbows were made with a charging wheel that the crossbower spin for minuts to reload... (Sorry, I don't know the english words for all this terms and concepts)
The median time expected for each shoot was 1 or 2 minuts for "normal" crossbows that were reloaded pulling back the string, and 3 or 4 for heavy crossbows (but the last one was able to penetrate the thoughest armours).

And a crossbow pivot (or arrow) CAN'T do as much damage as a battle axe or a claymore. It is not unrealistis, it is just absurd.


If combat system in Cantr was changed, all the weapons hierarchy should be revised and adjusted. Specially the damage amounts.

[Phalynx]

I think originally damage was based pretty much on how hard it is to obtain, or rather manufacture, a weapon not on any other basis.

Presumably 'ranged' weapons will also require 'ammo' arrows or bolts.

And of course the concept of damage is altogether bollox anyway. You can kill someone with a bic biro if you so desire... or your bare hands... just pick your moment.

If we choose to be too realistic then a lot of characters will have spent a long time on weapons and the like that are purely for show because I don't see mcuh talk of armour which is a key factor in historical times.

leather, Padded jackets, chainmail, plate armour, kevlar. These things are often as relevant as the weapon used in attack.

[Nosajimiki]

Armour has been heavilly discussed... and sadly ignored

As for the bow comment, it think the point was not so much it can't be fired in a small room, but that they can't be used effectively when you are being hacked at in close quarters. Melee weapons can quickly go from a paree<sp> or a shield block to a strike whereas an archer can not deffend himself and notch and fire an arrow similtaniously. Out doors an archer would have the theortical ability to fall back while loading his weapon.