TBR and Noniwrok, historical discussion. (No war talk)

[kinvoya]

I had a char visiting Karnon for a while and saw several people dragged into prison and killed for speaking out against the army. Free speach was definitely not allowed there.

Also, the reason non-Tribemembers were told to leave the forest and sleepers were dragged into unlocked buildings was to prevent OOC spying. If they woke up, they were free to leave town. Lots of players spawn sleepers just to listen to what is going on in a town. In a situation where TBR was literally surrounded by enemies they had to do what they could to minimize IC and OOC spies.

People who ignored the law and headed down the road to Karnon were either suicidal or considered to be spies/traitors. They were given ample opportunity to turn around. There were other, longer ways to get between Blackrock Forest and Karnon.

Karnon Forest and Karnon had a treaty. Karnon's ambassador came to the forest requesting it. Then they aligned with every other group on the island to wipe out TBR. They just decided to dishonor themselves by ignoring their own treaty.

Karnon was cooperating with TBR after the takeover of the Seaside by helping to build a harbor there.

Ethan was a cowardly, whining, psychopathic jerk. Dismai wanted to personally kill him when he was a newspawn. Then she died and Nick went a little crazy, it seems, letting Ethan do stupid things

[AoM]

The attempted kidnapping and attempted killing was a retaliatory act against the ENA leaders. ENA attacked first and killed three Tribe members.

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

Ah. But according to objective testimony, it turns out that you killed some innocents. And of course, the whole calling a woman a horse-face and then killing her boyfriend for standing up for her doesn't really show you guys in a good light either. How many people need to die before it's considered a massacre? 3? 7? 20? Whatever. Word got out about it and it was just another crime that inflamed the island against TBR.

[AoM]

Karnon Forest and Karnon had a treaty. Karnon's ambassador came to the forest requesting it. Then they aligned with every other group on the island to wipe out TBR. They just decided to dishonor themselves by ignoring their own treaty.

The Treaty was to be upheld so long as TBR didn't take aggressive measures against the island. When the attack at the Seaside occured, Karnon considered it an abhorrent act. Because we did not have the ability to fight an all out war against TBR, we didn't attack, instead we tried to manipulate and gain access to a harbor in the Seaside. We wanted a presence there so we could try to contain TBR.

But even while we were doing that, the Treaty had already been discarded within the Senate. Ethan's actions, Karnon felt, had broken the spirit of the Treaty, and we felt that TBR was no longer worthy of honor.

(Or at least, Naleph felt that way. He felt duped, that he had trusted Nick and Ethan to act accordingly and work towards peace. And the next thing he sees is them murdering people in a place that Karnon wanted to expand towards. The Seaside majorly messed with him, and as I've said, planted the seed of hatred within him. The treaty was a mockery of honor and trust, but it was TBR, he felt, who had sullied it first.)

[Bran-Muffin]

The attempted kidnapping and attempted killing was a retaliatory act against the ENA leaders. ENA attacked first and killed three Tribe members.

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

Ah. But according to objective testimony, it turns out that you killed some innocents. And of course, the whole calling a woman a horse-face and then killing her boyfriend for standing up for her doesn't really show you guys in a good light either. How many people need to die before it's considered a massacre? 3? 7? 20? Whatever. Word got out about it and it was just another crime that inflamed the island against TBR.

I say at least 10 people need to die before it can be considered a massacre. The one that called the woman Horse Faced was a new member of the Tribe named Travis. He only said something and got attacked by the womans boyfriend then locked up by Lucky (one of the thieves) that is when the Tribe took action and locked up the woman, her boyfriend and Lucky. They started breaking out of the building and all would probably have attacked if they got free, so they were killed.

If you notice in my post I said one thief and two of his friends.

[Bowser]

The attempted kidnapping and attempted killing was a retaliatory act against the ENA leaders. ENA attacked first and killed three Tribe members.

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

Ah. But according to objective testimony, it turns out that you killed some innocents. And of course, the whole calling a woman a horse-face and then killing her boyfriend for standing up for her doesn't really show you guys in a good light either. How many people need to die before it's considered a massacre? 3? 7? 20? Whatever. Word got out about it and it was just another crime that inflamed the island against TBR.

I say at least 10 people need to die before it can be considered a massacre. The one that called the woman Horse Faced was a new member of the Tribe named Travis. He only said something and got attacked by the womans boyfriend then locked up by Lucky (one of the thieves) that is when the Tribe took action and locked up the woman, her boyfriend and Lucky. They started breaking out of the building and all would probably have attacked if they got free, so they were killed.

If you notice in my post I said one thief and two of his friends.

Actually the young man's name was Eric who called the woman a horse-face. Buff said he liked horsefaced women and that led to Eric pointing the woman out and him being dragged off by a few men. The people of Kwor Beach started the violence. I have a log of the entire event incase anyone is interested.

[Bran-Muffin]

Who was.. Travis then? Why am I thinking that name?

[the_antisocial_hermit]

They started breaking out of the building and all would probably have attacked if they got free, so they were killed.

If you notice in my post I said one thief and two of his friends.

Only one was breaking out, as only one had a crowbar. The others could only hope they'd have a chance to see their own home again.

Attack only in self-defense, since the ones that weren't guilty weren't given a chance to find out what was happening or why they were locked up. Couldn't even get a note out or any one important enough to bother to come in to answer some damn questions when they knocked.

Because, you know, rapiers and bone shields are such strong weapons and shields against 4 or 5 sabres (or was it more?) and iron shields. Or was it the voice we were afraid of?

I wouldn't have considered one of those "friends" as much of a friend, as only an acquaintance and barely that.

Ah, the lies we weave through assumptions.

That aside, yea, you have to do what you have to do because you can't predict what others will do if you give them a chance. *mumbles and kicks a rock*

[west]

I say at least 10 people need to die before it can be considered a massacre. The one that called the woman Horse Faced was a new member of the Tribe named Travis. He only said something and got attacked by the womans boyfriend then locked up by Lucky (one of the thieves) that is when the Tribe took action and locked up the woman, her boyfriend and Lucky. They started breaking out of the building and all would probably have attacked if they got free, so they were killed.

Y'all don't know the first thing about Kwor Beach massacres
Ever wonder why the Beachside Estates was jammed with bodies when the lock was broken? Ask Luckyboy (if he's still alive) what happened in there.

[AoM]

Interesting sidenote, West's murderer and his partner were mistaken by the general public of Kwor for TBR members once they moved up from being the Beachside Estate murderers into full-fledged pirates. It was one of the few things that TBR was blamed for that they didn't have anything to do with.

But the murders commited by west's character happened much earlier than the Kwor Beach murders by Nick, Buff and Stylez. No one mistakes them for the same thing.

[kinvoya]

Luckyboy is dead, west. I'd like to hear about the building full of bodies.

[west]

Luckyboy is dead, west. I'd like to hear about the building full of bodies.

You always say the nicest things.

Oh, and AoM, they didn't "move up" from the Beachside Estates murderers, they moved down. Their career really went downhill (as far as technique, which was all that mattered to them) after the East Kol massacre. As far as material goods, they got rather better.

But I digress. The inspiration for saying they were TBR people was so they could ransack the TBR building (which was unlocked) and load up their ship with no rush before anyone realized what they were up to. The rest of it, during the attack, was their normal modus operandi. If nobody remembers exactly what they said that's all right, but it wasn't out of any specific malice towards TBR. They didn't care any more or less for them than for anyone else in the world at that point. Except for some reason I believe they refrained from killing whoever the Holy Father priest was at the time.

Kinvoya, the building full of bodies was basically for fun. They built the Beachside Estates so they'd have a place to make their crowbars and crossbows in peace, and it was close to Kwor and KSF for limestone and coal. Then they hit everyone who was around, dragged them into the building, and disposed of them at their leisure. I think that included June Maken. Can't remember why they didn't kill Luckyboy.

They were horrible men, but not particularly malicious. They viewed (at least my char did) killing as a sport or an art, because nobody really mattered to them enough to hate. Except Keldorn Firecam, but that was just because he was annoying as a newspawn.

I'm sorry, back to your bickering.

[Marian]

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

Well, from what I read, the thief was dead way before the TBR people showed up...maybe if they'd done a little detective work instead of insulting people girlfriend's things might have been different?

Ah. But according to objective testimony, it turns out that you killed some innocents. And of course, the whole calling a woman a horse-face and then killing her boyfriend for standing up for her doesn't really show you guys in a good light either. How many people need to die before it's considered a massacre? 3? 7? 20? Whatever. Word got out about it and it was just another crime that inflamed the island against TBR.

My point exactly. And for whoever it was that said 10, give me a break. Maybe in RL, but in Cantr that's bigger than the population of a lot of towns. How many people were there on the beach anyway, compared to the number of attackers?

And the thing that really gets me is that the victims were actually making an effort to return the boat and the stuff that was stolen. How many people would bother to do that? And of course as a reward they get murdered.

[kinvoya]

The theives were the ones who stole it from the original thief (who I still believe was in an OOC ring with them because he basically just stopped the boat in Kwor and handed it over and posted about it to brag about his stealing...I'll try to find the link). Here is the link and following discussion: http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=45

They never contacted TBR but did offer to give back the empty longboat when the tribe members arrived. They could hardly deny that it belonged to the tribe since it was called TBR Longboat #1. They denied having any of the stolen goods, however.

Many of the new people moving into the beach were "friends" of the thieving couple Luckyboy and Lilly so it was assummed they would put up a fight if TBR attacked the ones with the stolen goods.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

Well, from what I read, the thief was dead way before the TBR people showed up...maybe if they'd done a little detective work instead of insulting people girlfriend's things might have been different?

Then you misread something, confused some people. The thief he is talking about is Lucky. He was not dead. There was another thief that took everything first. Then Lucky and Lilly took over the boat after getting rid of that thief, thus becoming thieves because they kept the stuff on the boat and didn't return it to its rightful owners, TBR. So they got one of the two later thieves, but they also took two innocents with them.

I wouldn't say it was a massacre, but retribution on one point and murder on two others.

[Bran-Muffin]

It wasnt a massacre they were killings though. Each of those incidents didnt have anything to do with peace between Karnon and the Forest. TBR went to get resources back from thieves, the thieves refused and so one theif and two of his friends died.

Well, from what I read, the thief was dead way before the TBR people showed up...maybe if they'd done a little detective work instead of insulting people girlfriend's things might have been different?

Ah. But according to objective testimony, it turns out that you killed some innocents. And of course, the whole calling a woman a horse-face and then killing her boyfriend for standing up for her doesn't really show you guys in a good light either. How many people need to die before it's considered a massacre? 3? 7? 20? Whatever. Word got out about it and it was just another crime that inflamed the island against TBR.

My point exactly. And for whoever it was that said 10, give me a break. Maybe in RL, but in Cantr that's bigger than the population of a lot of towns. How many people were there on the beach anyway, compared to the number of attackers?

And the thing that really gets me is that the victims were actually making an effort to return the boat and the stuff that was stolen. How many people would bother to do that? And of course as a reward they get murdered.

One thief was dead yeah, but when Lillian and Lucky started to use the resources knowing where it came from they became the thieves.

They made no effort to return the items. They put it to their own use. Lillian and Lucky both had brand new iron shields made out of the iron that TBR owned. And some leather clothes made out of our leather. We had six members of the Tribe in town.

Things would have turned out different if they made an effort to return the items and not lie about having the resources when they were seen unloading the boat into their building.

And I said for it to be considered a masscre it needs to be at least ten. You dont agree, I dont give a fuck. Three people dont make a massacre.