How much for the little girl?

[Agar]

Personally I like SEKOetc's idea of adopting. Have any of you married couples considered that? Ok, so you'd be adopting someone in their twenties, but as long as there's a reasonable age difference, who cares? Tell the kid thier name, introduce them around as your kid, show them the meaning and reward of labor, there you go.

As for an OOC posting of where charries who want kids are, hell no, that is SO a CR breech. Now married parents wanting kids starting an orphanage, and having whatever passes for a mail carrier spread the word, that is all in game and great.

Has anyone EVER adopted anyone in Cantr? I know of a couple tribes/clans that get everyone to change thier names... but actually having a married couple adopt another player? Has it happened?

It might be a soution to the child problem...

Unless the players Dept can think of a reason we shouldn't do it. Aside from no, you can't adopt your own charries.

[The Industriallist]

I think I once saw an adoption, or attempted adoption. Not by a married couple, just a man in his thirties who build a house. I don't know how it worked out.

[Pirog]

I don't like the idea of adoption.
It feels unnatural. If children doesn't exist, why would people just adopt someone and treat them like one?

[Missy]

[rant] Without dilemmas in game that we as players wouldn't necessarily find appropriate in the real world, there would be no purpose to consider Cantr a society simulator. [/rant]

Yes, I think that all the things I mentioned will be good. I don't feel they have to be graphic or described, but at least implied.

About rape--One of the reasons why there aren't very many uprisings is because there is nothing to protest. (aside of the few laws or ways of life some don't agree with that already exist.) The reason for that is because there aren't very many ways to force characters into doing something they don't want to do. You either force them psychologically or lock them in a building.


About "wanting attention"---Call it what you will, but some societies might think that the practice you personally feel is for attention, is acceptable. For instance, in the US we think our women deserve rights and most men here believe that too, but in Afghanistan you'll find that a majority of men don't think their women have any rights at all. Since we in the US hold the view women and men are to be given equal opportunities, we've decided to tell Afghanistan about our view in whatever way we see fit. These types of situations should happen in game on a person to person or town to town basis. But in no way should your personal view or practices from real life hinder the way society is in game. They are your characters and live in world totally seperate from that, that you live in. Villains contraversy and differences in opinion from our characters are needed or otherwise what is the point of calling Cantr II a society simulator?


We can't not allow certain things to happen in Cantr because we find it inappropriate in our world. That's not to say you must be graphic or type out further actions than that which will exist with in the properties of the game.

I started learning about ginetics in 6th grade, thus knew of reproduction. (I also knew exactly how it happened at that age, but I also knew when I was even more young that you needed a mom and dad to exist.) Anyone who doesn't grasp that they have been "produced" has issues learning and needs to be taught. You don't have to know about sex to know you're a bi-product of two people and nothing more. So if the button we are to click on says nothing but "Reproduce" then persons who don't have any knowledge about sexual intercourse likely wont have any more idea of it just because of that button. Reproduce could mean someone touched someone else on t he nose and then there was a baby that was born. It's up to you to decide what that "reproduce" button will mean. Thats the way I see it. Are there people who will acknowledge the reproduce button as having implied that their character had sex with another character? More than likely. But is that any concern of yours? It's deffinately not any of mine!

Furthermore, the word sex doesn't even have to be mentioned regarding rape.
A man in his twenties A says: You will reproduce now, whether you
like it or not.
A woman in her twenties says: I don't want to!
A man in his twenties A says: Do it or die!
A man in his twenties B says: "Thats WRONG!"

How hard is that to witness?

If there were something beside a icon that said "reproduce" I still wouldn't find it disturbing to see in game.

This poll isn't a very good indicator of what people who play "want." Considering not everyone visits the forum, plus noone has actually experienced playing a child or the effects (some of you are predicting,) to know they will really want it or not.

Also, I think it was already established that in some way, reproduction will be introduced. In fact I can remember when Meh was still on programming he'd already begun the process of implementing children.

[Pirog]

Children will also solve the problem with people not RPing well enough to keep their characters alive. If you have played your character from a child growing up you won't want to throw it away at the age of twenty in a low chance of success grab-and-run stunt.

I think that will have a huge impact on the game.
People will no longer benifit from starving their characters to death when they are imprisoned to start a new one, since they would have to go through the process of being children first.

[Lumera]

I think one thing that people may be forgetting here is that a game is supposed to be fun. Personally, I don't consider the RP of rape or child abuse to fall under that definition. Yes, call Cantr a serious society simulator or whatever you want, but it's is still essentially a game that people play in their free time. If it starts being unfun, I for one will probably wind up finding a better use for those 200 minutes.

Except for school and work making me have to sleep too much, I'm having a great time now. Really the only thing that could improve it for me is if the game were a little harder and more balanced for everybody, without newer characters having such an enormous disadvantage for basically OOC reasons.

Weather and disease and item deterioration and things of that nature would be welcome, too, but somehow the thought of a bunch of people who may be bad RPers in the first place being forced to stand around pretending to be two year olds does not appeal to me. *sigh* I can already picture Cantr overrun by squealing, pouting, sickenly cute and precocious TV stereotypes...and that's just the people who bother to roleplay. Right now we have suicidal newspawns, but at least they're easily dealt with. What new ways of getting on everyone's nerves are these people going to invent if they realize they're stuck playing a useless character in a place they don't want to be?

[Oasis]

I don't think anyone should be forced to play a child if they don't want to. The idea that all new chars, or a certain percentage of your chars will have to be children I don't think will work. In my opinion, that should be a choice made by the players themselves, or yes, I do foresee what you are predicting Lumera.

If this were the case, then I think there would be a slow introduction of children, not a mass enslaught that people seem to be worried about. They would likely be played well, because the players would want to play them.

I agree that it will open up a wide gamut of new possibilities, the one the most exciting I think will be the ability to have a family, the word brother, sister, uncle will then have real meaning. Heirs to thrones over succession, possible plots and murders to prevent heirs from taking the throne, adding a new dimension as Pirog said, to traditions and beliefs.

I don't know why rape is of such concern. I can't imagine why that would be more possible than it is now. Anything can be rp'd now, including rape. Have we seen it? I haven't, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done, most likely privately. I can't imagine that the introduction of a "reproduce" button will make that more of a possibility, but if it does, I'm sure it will be kept private as all other things of that nature are now.

We have to get away from the thought of babies being a crying nuisance, and going to wreck the game enough to make players want to quit. I really don't think they will have a huge annoying impact to the extent that some of you are so worried about. I think the benefits will far outweigh the odd bout of crying, and as I said before, I'm sure societies will find ways to deal with that, as with all other things they don't like.

[Pirog]

Lumera>

But is it up to you to decide for everyone what is fun?
I don't think child rape will be a problem, and would really have no problems with a rule preventing it to happen...but I would, for example, want the possibility to murder children. (Not because I find it funny, but because it simply should be an option in a realistic society simulator)

We all have our things we feel are funny and things we think will ruin the game experience for us. For me it is the technical development, that I feel will in time destroy my interest in Cantr...we all have our different opinions.

I just don't understand why people get so touchy when it comes to children. If a baby dies it is not like an actual child dies...this is a game. When you kill someone the only thing that happens is that one of their made up characters disappear...

[The Industriallist]

I just don't understand why people get so touchy when it comes to children.

Modern soft thinking...only atrocities that are allowed on TV should exist.
Rape's an atrocity. But you can already kill people idiscriminately, and that's not changing. So clearly, no rules of good conduct for characters are being enforced (OOC) now...why should they be in the future, at the cost of a (possibly) beneficial feature?

For me, it was always the statement (I know it's around some of the older topics) that children were supposed to entirely replace spawning eventually, except for the first few characters.

If playing children was optional, I'd say sure, good idea. I probably wouldn't actually use it, but it'd make some people happy and not hurt my experience any.

If children are sufficiently growth-accelerated, I would say that it'd probably not do too much damage, and would do some good, so seeing as it's been endorsed/promised from on high there's no reason to give more than a token protest, if that.

If children are mandatory and take 200+ days from character creation to maturity, I'd say that cantr's going to die, and whine as much as I can get away with to try to stop it.

[NetherSpawn]

If children are completely optional, I only mind this on a few grounds.
1: It would, to some degree, validate the annoying people who ''''''RPed'''''' children, as well as the people who decided that males and females have this inclination toward bonding and the people who decided to type naughty things in Cantr. IF YOU PUT ASTERISKS AROUND IT, IT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!
*Screaming a ferocious battlecry, rips Seatown Forest out of the ground and hurls it to Dhung*
2: Everyone is in their twenties normally, hence almost any oddity that does not involve asterisks is perfectly fine. However, for babies to be anything but temporarily crippled players would require lots of RPing that would be cast aside all the time. (50 Cantr players simultaneously realize how fun it would be to play a child genious).
3: I don't want to hear "baby noises". I guaranteed someone will decide that babies make noises like "goo-goo".
4: Cantrian physics/biology has always been dubious, but it seems odd that characters would both spawn and be born, especially after spawning was the norm. More importantly, it's just an incredibly weird shift, especially if you consider that projects make inanimate objects, not previously non-existant Cantrianoid sentients.
5: There are useful things the PD could enact, and this sounds like a nightmare. Especially if it takes two people of the opposite gender.

[Cheshierekat]

What if babies are actually children. Say, age 10? I think it's been suggested before.

[The Sociologist]

...but somehow the thought of a bunch of people who may be bad RPers in the first place being forced to stand around pretending to be two year olds does not appeal to me. *sigh* I can already picture Cantr overrun by squealing, pouting, sickenly cute and precocious TV stereotypes...and that's just the people who bother to roleplay.

Thank you Lumera.

And to the rest of you...
"shlurppp *sucks on a lump of rubber, drooling into his cotton bib* Mummie, milk please I'm hungreeeey *stares up at mummy with big hopeful adoring eyes* Mummie's sleeping... Wake up mummy... Mummy wake up... WAAAAA! *snivels, drools and his nose runs* Milk please auntie Eve... auntie EEEVE... *looks up anxiously at auntie tears running down his cute little cheeks and dripping onto his cotton bib where they mix with dried two day-old drool* auntie's sleeping... Wake up auntie Eve... AUNTIE EVE *beats tiny little snot-covered fists on auntie's shoes* WAAAAA!... WAAAAA!... mummEEEEE! auntEEEEE! WAAAAA! WAAAAA! WAAAAA!"

You see Governor Devon Dobbs hurt Baby with a saber.

Or am I missing something?
.

[Missy]

I think you're apparently missing something.



That will likely happen, and it too, is good for the game. Your character is supposed to have some personality, if he witnessed such a scinerio, he'd do something in his/her town to prevent such a case from happening.

Is it not annoying when your char dies from being attacked by hundreds of buffalo? Well, maybe crying is annoying too, but those are things your society must come up with solutions to. Deal with it!

[Lumera]

Thank you Lumera.

And to the rest of you...
"shlurppp *sucks on a lump of rubber, drooling into his cotton bib* Mummie, milk please I'm hungreeeey *stares up at mummy with big hopeful adoring eyes* Mummie's sleeping... Wake up mummy... Mummy wake up... WAAAAA! *snivels, drools and his nose runs* Milk please auntie Eve... auntie EEEVE... *looks up anxiously at auntie tears running down his cute little cheeks and dripping onto his cotton bib where they mix with dried two day-old drool* auntie's sleeping... Wake up auntie Eve... AUNTIE EVE *beats tiny little snot-covered fists on auntie's shoes* WAAAAA!... WAAAAA!... mummEEEEE! auntEEEEE! WAAAAA! WAAAAA! WAAAAA!"

You see Governor Devon Dobbs hurt Baby with a saber.

I take it back. Child abuse will be fun to RP.

[nitefyre]

...but somehow the thought of a bunch of people who may be bad RPers in the first place being forced to stand around pretending to be two year olds does not appeal to me. *sigh* I can already picture Cantr overrun by squealing, pouting, sickenly cute and precocious TV stereotypes...and that's just the people who bother to roleplay.

Thank you Lumera.

And to the rest of you...
"shlurppp *sucks on a lump of rubber, drooling into his cotton bib* Mummie, milk please I'm hungreeeey *stares up at mummy with big hopeful adoring eyes* Mummie's sleeping... Wake up mummy... Mummy wake up... WAAAAA! *snivels, drools and his nose runs* Milk please auntie Eve... auntie EEEVE... *looks up anxiously at auntie tears running down his cute little cheeks and dripping onto his cotton bib where they mix with dried two day-old drool* auntie's sleeping... Wake up auntie Eve... AUNTIE EVE *beats tiny little snot-covered fists on auntie's shoes* WAAAAA!... WAAAAA!... mummEEEEE! auntEEEEE! WAAAAA! WAAAAA! WAAAAA!"

You see Governor Devon Dobbs hurt Baby with a saber.

Or am I missing something?
.

You forgot something:

John says: Stop hitting on her, you horny bastard.

You see Uncle John toss the baby out to sea.

Seriously, there are viable game options, as I said before, the adoption thing. Anyways, by the time it is implemented, your current characters would be too friggen old to produce offspring. Cantr's learning curve is enormous and unfair to new players. I'm strongly against children. Even the Silly thing, there was Silly, and then there was a bunch of copy cats. Babies/Children may tip from where I find cantr as fun, and to where my friends find it. The novelty cuteness of it will wear off.

For crying outloud: BUY THE SIMS! If you want a family simulator.

Get real, and listen to people like Agar, Lumera and those with some sense on the matter- especially with recruiting, and keeping players.