Bows

[Spider]

All i got is 67g of sinew.....what is sinew?

[nitefyre]

A tendon, and a tendon is "A band of tough, inelastic fibrous tissue that connects a muscle with its bony attachment."

[Spider]

Thank you very much

[The Sociologist]

Have sinews been added to the game yet? Just I noticed the new bow type and was wondering.

Yes.

Not from anything I've killed yet. Let me guess. An exceptionally rare breed of swamp cat?
.

You haven't killed anything yet that would have large or strong enough sinew that could be used on a bow powerful to penetrate animal hide or human skin.

I've just seen the new bone spear, and you know something? I'm rather pleased with it. So you see I'm not always grumpy.
.

[rklenseth]

Bows are back in the game. If you come up with any problems, please, pm me or send an e-mail to resources immediately and we will try to fix it as soon as possible. Thank you.

[The Industriallist]

Aren't composite bows supposed to be composite? They're made of nothing but wood...unless I'm missing something big...

Also, were bowstrings ever made of string? I guess I don't know otherwise, but I wouldn't think it would be strong enough.

And why, for an (I assume) identical bowstring, why do you need more silk than cotton, or more cotton than hemp?

[rklenseth]

Aren't composite bows supposed to be composite? They're made of nothing but wood...unless I'm missing something big...

A composite bow in archery usually means that the bow can be broken down into different parts rather than made from different materials.

Also, were bowstrings ever made of string? I guess I don't know otherwise, but I wouldn't think it would be strong enough.

Yes, bowstring is made from string. You need to take several strands of string to make bowstring. Remember science class when you learn if you try to break one twig it breaks easily but try to break many twigs at once and then it becomes almost impossible. Same idea. Plus, bowstring today, for the most part, is usually waxed which prolongs life of bowstring and makes a little bit stronger. But, yes, eventually all bowstring will break and will need to be replaced in real life. Right now in Cantr we do not have object or object's parts have the ability to break yet. It is in the planning stages though.

And why, for an (I assume) identical bowstring, why do you need more silk than cotton, or more cotton than hemp?

Determined by strength and flexiability of materials.

[The Industriallist]

Aren't composite bows supposed to be composite? They're made of nothing but wood...unless I'm missing something big...

A composite bow in archery usually means that the bow can be broken down into different parts rather than made from different materials.

I'm sorry, but I have to fight this. Because that just isn't what it means.

Composite
- a bow made by laminating multiple materials together in thin layers. Materials most commonly used in traditional bows were different types of wood and layers of horn, often bound together with sinew and glued in layers.
Modern bows usually use layers of wood, fibreglass and/or steel. Traditional Asiatic and Arab bows were often horn/wood/sinew recurved composites. The different materials allow the bow to use the best properties in the best location to maximise their efficiency. Manufacture of these types of bows is a slow and painstaking task, as any weakness in any of the joints will give either reduced performance, or a bow which will break under load.

Backed bow
- a bow primarily of wood, but having a thin strip of another material along the back of the bow (see composite bow). Usually the material used was a thin strip of wood (eg bamboo or hickory), or a strip of raw hide or even silk glued in place. This backing did not add much (if anything) to the strength or efficiency of the bow, rather it helped the bow to return slowly to straightness. Bows backed with sinew are the exception to this, as the sinew greatly increases the tension of the bow.

From http://www.student.utwente.nl/~sagi/faq/trad.shtml

This is why I kept talking about glue...
And this is just a 30-second web search.

[joshua johnson]

On the bow requirements, I have a question.

A previous posting in the support area said only compound bows would require steel or iron (which I don't see compound bows in the list yet)

But I did notice that the composite recurve requires a bow square, which must be made with a carving knife, which requires iron.

Soooo....did the previous post mean to say that composite recurves (and not compounds, which I don't see anywhere) would require steel and iron, or was it simply a mistake (in the post or in the requirements)

[rklenseth]

While you are correct, you should also refer to this;

http://members.aol.com/dargolyt/TheForge/compbow.htm

The name composite bow was descriptive of a bow constructed of three basic layers of different materials, usually wood, bone, and sinew. The term “compound bow” was also used to refer to this type of bow, but since it did not become popular as a term until this century, it is not useful here. Composite bows were constructed in a fairly labor-intensive process. Basically, bone and sinew layers were applied to a wood core; each layer would enhance the elasticity of the others. The wood core generally consisted of three pieces: one for the upper part of the bow, one for the lower part, and the hand grip (rkl's side note: this is also called the risor or handle risor). Two strips of horn would be glued to the belly (side toward the archer) of the wood core, and a strip of sinew would be glued to the back (side toward the target) of the wood core. The elastic properties of these materials working together allowed a smaller bow to fire an arrow farther and with greater force. Turkish composite bows were considered to be the world’s best bows until synthetic materials were used in bow construction, just this century. The greatest distances for an arrow shot from a composite bow were recorded in the 19th century: 660 yards for special arrows, and 440 yards (1/4 mile) for war arrows.

Glue at this time cannot be added as it would require programming we don't currently have but I believe programming so that we can make use of glue, nails ect... is on their to do list.

Generally, a composite bow is broken into different materials as well as different parts but right now we do not have the programming to add in. I could add in sinew to the process of bowmaking but it would make it harder and more labor intentsive and have decided to omith this process at the moment.

I hope that helps you in telling you where I am coming from.

[rklenseth]

On the bow requirements, I have a question.

A previous posting in the support area said only compound bows would require steel or iron (which I don't see compound bows in the list yet)

But I did notice that the composite recurve requires a bow square, which must be made with a carving knife, which requires iron.

Soooo....did the previous post mean to say that composite recurves (and not compounds, which I don't see anywhere) would require steel and iron, or was it simply a mistake (in the post or in the requirements)

That is a mistake and thank you for pointing it out. It should have been a knife.

And a compound bow has not been added to the game yet.

[joshua johnson]

I think that is the quickest change I have ever seen.

While you are at it, can you change sabres to be made with just a stone hammer? Kidding.....*laughs*

[The Industriallist]

But...glue is just a resources job:

project making glue:
500g hide
500g water
100g wood

(all numbers pulled out of thin air. Change proportions if you like)

That's the glue that was most probably used to make real composite bows. denatured animal-hide proteins.

Add to a firepit, or a fireplace, or an oven...no coding.
Technically you ought to have to heat it to use it I think (I did research, but it got accidentally moved to one of the private forums so I can't see it anymore), but then technically you can't make anything out of metal without a forge to soften it.

And...the entire point of a composite bow is that it uses different materials. That's where it's entire function comes from. The fact that it's made in parts may be essential to it's construction, but it isn't the source of its power. And all the resources you need to make it out of multiple materials exist, using your quote as a guide (mine calls for horn, which you could add if you wanted, like you did sinew).

What programming exactly is missing?

[SekoETC]

Bows are back in the game.

Cool. And yikes. Now the amount of things needed is so depressing that most of my primitive characters wouldn't bother to try. Sounds realistic since before now everybody has been building bows just because they are so easy and efficient. Now there even might be a chance for people to be weaponsmiths. Somehow I feel that some of my characters should discard their bows because they couldn't have made them with these requirements... It's strange how people during the last days have went all "I'm going to make X" ... "Oh wait, seems like I have forgotten how to, nevermind".

[nitefyre]

Manufacturable Weapons:

Battle axe

Billy club

Blow dart pipe

Bone club

Bone Spear

Broad sword

Composite recurve bow

Compound bow

Dagger

Flail

Halberd

Longbow

Mace

Primitive bow

Recurve bow

Sabre

Slingshot

Spear

Whip

So I assume that Crossbows have been changed into one of those, but Crossbows in game, have not yet been renamed