Eye colours etc.

[The Hunter]

A char who sustained a lot of hits in his life should have *scarred* in his description. Great RP value and quite interesting ingame. A stranger with a lot of scars should at least raise some eyebrows. For a guardsman it would mean status.

[Pirog]

Yes. I allready have a character that is badly scarred after nearly being killed in his youth.

And other things may change to.
People might want to grow beards, tatoo themselves or whatever.

[SierraBreez]

Ok in my opinion I wouldn't want the strangely colored people like the blue, orange, green, etc. I would like the different eye colors and hair colors though.

People could still do the racisim based on the hair and eye colors. I think skin colors should remain close to real life colors. Eye colors i know vary a lot as is with things like Albinism and such adding in uncommon colors. Hair color also varies greatly and even more so with all the hair dye out there. I think that would be cool if i char could change their hair color in some way if they wanted to also.

The game just wouldn't have quite the same feel to me if i had these blue, orange, and green chars running around. While it could be fun for a short while i think that would wear off shortly and i'd want real colors back again. Maybe if that got limited to like one island or something and there was a box or something you could click before your char got spawned that would say if you mind if your char is strangely colored.

I also agree our current chars shouldn't be affected by the new descriptions since we tend to already have their descriptions and ways that we picture them.

[creepyguyinblack]

I know that some people have clearly envisioned their character's descriptions, but I think for the very idea behind genes to work, some of these conceptions will have to be shattered, just like has happened before with other various changes (ie: iron, animals, dynamic names). I am fairly sure that each continent and/or region will have a set of similar gene attributes so that differences between these continents and regions will be more visible and evident.

[Pirog]

creepy>

I think we are all willing to make some sacrifices for the benifit of the games progression, so I'm really only asking for this if it is possible.

For example, I have a black character that I realize I might have to give up...but the one with a clean shaven head, except for a long black pony tail, should be able to keep his appearance

[SekoETC]

I keep thinking some of my characters should have dark skin because of the area they live in (judging by the plants and animals and all) but they are still all white. Pharap and Hannah may be a bit darker but no one is distinctively black. And it bugs me. If only there was a rule that for example all on Djorf-Krif-Pok area are black then it would be easier to adjust because you wouldn't have to underline it. I keep imagining what areas are black and what white, Swedish island feels surprisingly Asian. I'm thinking K-island might be like American with the buffalo and all. Ok if everything would go like I said then there would be some oddities since I can't suddenly change blue eyes into black without losing a part of the character. But some day.

[Appleide]

You know what? Let's not have skin colors, eye colors, or stuff like that, I think everyone should be able to agree on this, unless they are like the development team of cantr or something

[west]

Dunno. I think it'd be cool to have skin colors/eye colors etc, but only if they were a part of the actual game mechanics.

"he seems strong, is in his twenties, and is working on project "manufacturing trowel". He is taller than average, with dark red hair and green eyes. His skin is dark brown."

That'd be awesome.

[The Sociologist]

I keep thinking some of my characters should have dark skin because of the area they live in (judging by the plants and animals and all) but they are still all white. Pharap and Hannah may be a bit darker but no one is distinctively black. And it bugs me. If only there was a rule that for example all on Djorf-Krif-Pok area are black then it would be easier to adjust because you wouldn't have to underline it. I keep imagining what areas are black and what white, Swedish island feels surprisingly Asian. I'm thinking K-island might be like American with the buffalo and all. Ok if everything would go like I said then there would be some oddities since I can't suddenly change blue eyes into black without losing a part of the character. But some day.

I've a problem with this whole thread, to be honest. I just don't see color as an important game mechanic and think it can be left to roleplay. But in the spirit of what you posted above, the only area that has struck me to date as somehow "African" is Zuzi. Tircqi reminds me of Amsterdam with legal pot... um I mean hemp, and everyone sitting around eating free state-supplied potatoes and discussing pornography and feminism. So people there should be any color they want.

The MacGregors tirelessly remind people that they're Celtic, so the Krif Hills can only be Scotland, while Drojf is strange... ostensibly Anglo Saxon but with just enough French names around to be confusing. Quebec? Seatown Forest is Hong Kong. Jo Jo is perfect for the role of a "New China" mega-organizer. Taowyn I took to be somehow Oriental--inscrutably grinning forever wider and with a very Zen approach to discussing his way of life. But now I've just learned that he has red hair, so I've an adjustment to make there.

But because of economic conditions, most of the rest of Cantr brings to mind the movie "Quest for Fire".

What I'm saying ultimately is that these issues are very sensitive and should perhaps be left to roleplay or player choice. And above all, unrealistic colors are a complete no-no for me.
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[west]

I don't really get skin-type impressions from the various areas of cantr, but I do get approx. location impressions.

Example: Karnon I see as in the plains under a hot sun, whereas Karnon Forest is a deep woods that's nearly always dark and dappled. Kwor seems kind of oriental, Krif seems like a beach town, Drojf more like a Northern European beach area.

Seatown area seems like it's a bit chilly most times, and Krif Hills seem like they're fairly sparse and highly-elevated.

Blaman gave me a very equatorial-Asia feel.

Lad seemed a bit like I'd imagine Thailand to be.

[SekoETC]

Tirqci seems like some sort of ghetto to me, but not full black, just a mix of different colours. And what is it with Krif hills drawing redheads? Sjoftich I see sometimes as Russian. Blaman mountains - Norway. Djorf hills - Germany. Drojf - Spain. Krif - France or England. Siom, Kiii, Jakara - definately Asian. And our beloved Plaekur Forest should have an Amazon river somewhere. Ok I don't know where these thoughts are coming from, I'm just throwing names!! but they just feel right.

[Pirog]

The Sociologist>

I just don't see color as an important game mechanic...

I think a ground for expressing suspicion against strangers would be an interesting feature in a society simulator. Some societies would probably embrace foreigners, while others may adapt racist ideals.

IRL I think racism is disgusting, but in a game like this it would have it's place. Of course it would be against the rules to use OOC views for discriminating characters though...

[myst]

I'm in the "halfway" camp here. There should definitely be some way of distinguishing strangers, and skin colour, eye colour etc are perfect for that. Computationally, I imagine its very easy to have new spawns colour taken proportionally to the colours already in existance at that place... giving an instant mechanism. The issue is how many colours to allow and how realistic to make them. Personally, I think we should stick with "normalish" colours because I can't really imagine a blue man with white hair in a fair way

But we already have:

eye colour (blue, green, brown, hazel, not counting yellow, red, gold, silver etc if allowed)
hair colour (blonde, brown, black, red)
skin colour (white, black, brown, pale brown)

for variation purposes, thats 64 combinations... I don't see the need for funny skin colours at all. If we want more, you can introduce facial structure, build, etc which can all be arbitrarily defined. And you can get a lot more colours out of it anyway, if you want.

[The Sociologist]

I think a ground for expressing suspicion against strangers would be an interesting feature in a society simulator. Some societies would probably embrace foreigners, while others may adapt racist ideals.

I'm in the "halfway" camp here. There should definitely be some way of distinguishing strangers, and skin colour, eye colour etc are perfect for that.

Look at it this way. Modern humans have been around since 200 KYA (thousand years ago) and except for the last five centuries there has been no significant interracial contact or mixing. That is how races came to exist in the first place. Even for the Romans, 'Africa' meant North Africa--ie people like Libyans and at most Nubians. It is unlikely they had any contact with true subsaharan Africans at all--ie those populations who now supply the word 'African' in African-American. Of direct contact with actual Chinese there was none.

What is worse is that this contact, when it finally did occur, has proved to be a whole can of worms. Yeah sure, we're getting on top of it now, but do we really need it in Cantr? My advice as The Sociologist is don't go there, and especially if it is to be used for "expressing suspicion against strangers."

I agree one needs to distinguish strangers. Throughout human history, clan membership has been expressed by way of body painting (earliest mined ochre was thought to have been 70 KYA but has now been moved back to 200 KYA ie as old as modern humans are), then tattooing, body piercing and eventually clothing and distinguishing medals.

Here is just one example of an idea:
a medallion embossed with a [select color] [select animal]

This ends up as you seeing someone wearing a "medallion embossed with a red lion". For that project to complete you would need the appropriate color pigment material, and the animal is of course selected only from the list of animals alive and kicking in that area when the project is begun. So, scatter a few more exotic animals around and you are well on your way. Same thing with tattoos. This solves CR breaches of medallions representing things out of game, and so on.

Tattoos would be even better because they cannot be removed or picked up. The tattooing project could form part of clan induction ceremonies. Yeah, I know this sounds somehow 'gangsta' to us today, but it was recognized across a simply huge span of human history.

And of course the hunt for appropriate pigments and metals or cloths for the base of the medallions will contribute to trade and so on. It is also probably easier to program and much much safer than introducing race.
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[Pirog]

Look at it this way. Modern humans have been around since 200 KYA (thousand years ago) and except for the last five centuries there has been no significant interracial contact or mixing.

But that separation is based on lack of transportation. That problem doesn't exist in Cantr in the same way.

That is how races came to exist in the first place.

Well, technically different human races doesn't even exist. As far as for example asians their appearance has much to do with supply of food etc.

What is worse is that this contact, when it finally did occur, has proved to be a whole can of worms.

Certainly...but that is based on strategies made by governments and institutions to keep it that way. Again, that wouldn't have to be something that happens in Cantr. And I don't want it as primarily a way for people to have racist characters in the game...I would just like to find it different from a game perspective.

I agree one needs to distinguish strangers. Throughout human history, clan membership has been expressed by way of body painting...

I would like to see these things too, and hope they will come.
Different kinds of dyes etc. to distinguish clothes will also promote trade.

It is also probably easier to program and much much safer than introducing race.

But perhaps we should look at it differently.
If people with IRL prejudice against certain people get to see that the characters in Cantr can cooperate and get a long regardless of the color of their skin perhaps some of them will learn an important lesson...