Machinery on ship

[masterekat]

I believe you can put a manual grain grinder on a ship, unless the one on mine is very, very old.

[madfish]

There is already ways to make food on a ship. I'm not sure if IRL someone was caught without food on a ship, there first regret was not building an onboard bakery. I agree with not letting too many machines be built on ships because there are already too many people who spend more time on board ships than in the towns where we need more activity.

[miirkaelisaar]

...because there are already too many people who spend more time on board ships than in the towns where we need more activity.

Mm, that's a bit opinionated. Is it better for someone to have 20 active people in a ship working productively and being friends, or on land? I wouldn't see how it makes a difference. If you can get an active community together either way, why does it matter? I'd rather be with 20 people on a ship than in a town with three sleepers who never talked to me, or people spawning in the middle of events and stealing and running off. Can't happen on a ship, newspawn trouble =P There's one benefit.

[masterekat]

Not to mention, its a heck of a treat for the land- [s]lovers[/s] dwellers when that big crew stops off for trade or to gather. Some of those small coastal towns would rarely see activity if it weren't for the travelers.

[madfish]

There's also no chance of new players coming into the game being integrated into said community because they instead spawn in empty towns where nothing is happening. Wouldn't it be better to solve the problems which make you want to create floating towns, rather than create more reasons to have floating towns?

Not to mention, its a heck of a treat for the land- [s]lovers[/s] dwellers when that big crew stops off for trade or to gather. Some of those small coastal towns would rarely see activity if it weren't for the travelers.

There would be much less visits to those towns if they were able to do more of the things they need to do in those towns on the ship.

[masterekat]

They could spawn in a town where nothing is happening because the same people are in the same place day in and day out and nothing changes (which is what happens in a lot of cases regardless of how many people live there). Or they have a greater chance of spawning in the midst of that crew because the population is much greater at that time and getting invited to travel with that crew. The same apathy and boredom could occur on land or on sea no matter the number of people in either location.

There would be much less visits to those towns if they were able to do more of the things they need to do in those towns on the ship.

Even if they could make steel on board (not saying I'm exactly in favor of this idea), they'd still need to stop for the raw resources. Not to mention, some sailors just like stopping for the sake of being social!

Meh...don't mean to cause an argument, and I can see where you're coming from. I'm not even sure I'm on the opposite side, as I have no problem with the amount of machines that can currently be built on ships. But those three sailors in me would never give up the sea, even if the game changed to where no machines could be built on board. I have a feeling the same would be true for many other seafaring characters. There's just a certain charm to being in a different place every few days with your crew, meeting new friends all of the time. However, I think your best chance for solving the problems that make people want to build floating towns have nothing to do with ships themselves and everything to do with land based locations. Shorter roads, fewer locations, ability to tear down and rebuild buildings into a more efficient configuration would all be better solutions than anything you could do with ships.

[madfish]

However, I think your best chance for solving the problems that make people want to build floating towns have nothing to do with ships themselves ... would all be better solutions than anything you could do with ships.

I didn't say doing something to ships would stop people build floating towns. I said letting people build more machinery on them would make people want to build floating towns, or at least stay on them more than they do...and suggested if there is a problem with living in town communities then your effort should be in resolving those problems not creating more reason for not living in towns.

I know I'm not the only one who has this opinion as there are countless people in this thread alone who have said the same thing.

Meh...don't mean to cause an argument

I'm just expressing a point contrary to someone elses that doesn't make it an argument in the sense you mean.

[miirkaelisaar]

Yes, but it wouldn't automatically mean that people /would/ build towns on ships. No more than they already do, really. Most people will still prefer to live on land. I don't think it's a good enough reason for certain machines to be impossible on ships =\ It's not plausible that everyone would suddenly all wanna live on ships just because of machinery being implemented on ships. It would just make it easier for people who did want to live on ships.

[masterekat]

Meh...don't mean to cause an argument

I'm just expressing a point contrary to someone elses that doesn't make it an argument in the sense you mean.

Alright, good to hear. I guess I'm just a bit paranoid that this is going to turn into some horrible variation of something that came from the Cantr Vent. It wasn't necessarily aimed at you personally.

I just feel that the amount of work a character can do on board doesn't have as much of an effect on how much time they spend on land versus water as you think it does. As long as there are resources to be gathered on land, sailors will always be gathering or trading. They'll always be trading the things they do when they sail for the things they can't do while they sail. I don't think it's such a bad thing if a crew could trade iron and steel to a small, poor town in exchange for wheat or rice that that crew needs to live and work off of. If that crew is the type to socialize and generate RP, they're going to do so regardless of the reasons for their stop. If the crew is just a set of simmers, they're going to silently use the towns machines and get the heck out of there as soon as they can.

At the same time, I do think crews can do plenty with the amount of machines that they're currently allowed to build. I guess my main thing is that I don't have a problem with floating cities. For me, they're always going to be more fun than stuck-in-one-place cities (unless, of course, I get stuck with that simmer crew. No offense, simmers. ).

[madfish]

Yes, but it wouldn't automatically mean that people /would/ build towns on ships. No more than they already do, really. Most people will still prefer to live on land. I don't think it's a good enough reason for certain machines to be impossible on ships =\ It's not plausible that everyone would suddenly all wanna live on ships just because of machinery being implemented on ships. It would just make it easier for people who did want to live on ships.

Again I think you should think about how we can resolve the reasons why you don't want to spend time in towns, rather than create reasons for you not having to dock to them and use the equipment which can only be built on land there.

IRL we don't have millstones/smelters etc. on boats because it is completely pointless to do so. We don't have people living on floating towns. Why do we have people wanting to do that in cantr? <- the answer is the problem, not the fact we can't build them.

[miirkaelisaar]

Okay, I can do that. If the reason is because the person or group of people literally can not seem to get along with anyone they meet, is it okay if they live on a ship instead of on land where they'll constantly be harassed? I think it should be their choice. It's not really fair to not let people live a certain way because it doesn't fit in with other people's wants to have bigger towns =\ sometimes there's a reason to live elsewhere. Sometimes you don't have a choice, and even if you did find an abandoned town, people would spawn and steal from you and fight with you. Some people are hermits LOL, it's a fact of life. And those people should have a right to live where they want. At least in my opinion. It wouldn't be fair if someone docked to towns to process food but got ran off for some trivial thing and never got their food. People should be allowed to be self-sufficient when they need to, not because everyone wants to, but because there are some who have no choice.

[madfish]

Ok so if the reason is they can't get along with another group of people why aren't they going to an empty place and setting up their own town? Why do they have to live in a ship? And if so, why can't they accept that doing so will bring with it some sacrifices? like not being able to use a milestone.

[masterekat]

IRL we don't have millstones/smelters etc. on boats because it is completely pointless to do so. Why do we have people wanting to do that in cantr? <- the answer is the problem, not the fact we can't build them.

Alright, well I'll go ahead and answer that from the viewpoint of some of my characters.

Why would I want to waste time sitting inside a building in some sleepy town to do some work that I could instead be doing on my ship while traveling to my next destination? Simple. Because now, not only do I have to sit here and do this work (that, if the people in this town really wanted to make something of their town, they should've had this stuff already in stock before I got here so they could make a profit off of me), but now when I finish, I have to get on my ship and do pointless work (like popping another couple thousand kilos of popcorn to add to the hundreds of kilos I already have, or repair the tens of bone knives I made from what I hunted over and over again) just to keep my hands busy. I would've much rather just bought the raw resources from this town and did the job on my way to the next town, where, hopefully, the people will actually be awake more than once every few days. I can't wait until I finally make it to a town that has some cloth products I can gather!

It wouldn't be fair if someone docked to towns to process food but got ran off for some trivial thing and never got their food.

Also, this! This has happened to me several towns in a row(trivial things, extreme sleepers, etc.) and my character and his crewmates nearly starved over it!

[madfish]

...I'll restate what I just said to miirkaelisaar. Why can't these people who choose to live on a ship not live with the sacrifices they have to make to do it? They already have a great benefit in that they can travel where they want, why shouldn't that come with disadvantages?

The people who choose to live in towns have to put up with disruptive newspawns, lonely work inside buildings etc. Why should sailors get off scot free? It's not fair for these boat communities to want all the good parts of living on land with none of the bad parts.

IRL if I want to live as a hermit on a mountainside I have to accept the fact that I wont get a newspaper delivered daily. If I live in a city I have to put up with the hustle and bustle of people. The astronauts on the international space station may really like living in space but they need to live with the fact that eventually their muscles are going to turn to mush. You can't have the best of both worlds. Cantr shouldn't be any different.

[miirkaelisaar]

I believe I clearly stated that there was /not/ a choice. When it's a coincidence that even nice friendly people will harass you even when you don't do anything, it's not your choice to be pushed away to a ship on the sea. It's because people in Cantr, for some reason, feel the need to bicker with new people over nothing and run them off. it's not necessarily that person's fault and they may be forced to live away from others and can't find an abandoned town. And if they were looking for an abandoned town instead of staying on their ship, trying to make people who feel the way you do happy, they would starve on the way anyway.