Yet Another Topic On In Game Religions

[thatsmartguy]

I don't know how widespread it is, according to the area I'm in the religious leaders state that only their land was created specially by the gods.

[Floyd]

So what made the rest of the world? Shoddy thinking there....

[thatsmartguy]

I don't think they acknowledge (spelling?) its existence, it makes no mention of other areas or nations, it is on a lone island anyway, I believe.

[Schme]

Welcome to Schmes Cantr Tutorial everyone...

Lesson one, make all of your charectors Open minded priests

And you expect people to do this?

I don't expect YOU to do anything. You not even open to anything, so nevermind for you.

In all the time I've played Cantr, I've never encountered any religious things whatsoever. I only heard about one that was centered far away and was defunct. But as I said in the first page, it's not about temples and priests and sacred texts. Read the first page, is what.

Churches and temples are not what I'm talking about, really. I mean, I'm not saying don't talk about the ones in Cantr in this thread, but I am saying that is not what I meant.

[Schme]

Hammertime.

[Schme]

Ha.

[Fleegle]

There are several RL village religions that believe that the gods specially created their area. This doesn't mean that the rest of the world wasn't also created by them, just that that area has sacred status, and that the people living there are the "chosen ones". Besides a religion doesn't have to be entirely logically consistent... in fact sometimes they deliberately go against logic, in the name of mysticism. And then there are several places where there is a local god that only has power within a certain geographical area, admitting that there are other gods that govern other areas. Often times there are additionally greater gods, e.g. a creator god, etc.

[KVZ]

Well, in Polish area there is cult of Great Zygurd and 99 of lessen deities. Priests call themselves as Great Zygurd order. Most of chars call them as "heretic sect of Zygurd" and they hate this "sect" because they have killed last but one wild boar in one location where this was prohibited by law. There was almost no animals on this Polish island, but now Jos added some on our request. Well, even this "sect" gained some sheep, and someone on Polish forum wrote:

Wolfish sect received as a present from Jos a herd of lambs to be able to change (like clothes) in their skin. But they prayed for zygurd, but not for Jos

[Schme]

There are many local gods, yes. But usually the only reason those gods are local is because whatever they are gods of are important to the local people, and they don’t really have, or didn’t at the time of the beginning of the belief, much contact with people who had alternative beliefs.

You’re right, though. Religion isn’t ever pure logic. In fact, a lot of it is not. But very little is just there for “The sake of mysticism.” It’s rare that things are made up just for the hell of mysticism. Most stories that do not immediately say something and are just stories nearly always lead too something else that does in the next story, which will have a moral lesson or explanation for something in it.

The first and primary function and reason for religion is to explain why things are the way they are, and to govern how people live, and what is right and wrong.

The rest is all secondary backburner stuff.

It seems to me you’re very interested in that sort of thing, Fleegle.

I know I am, anyway. Not really studied it extensively, though.



The sect in Poland is very interesting sounding. If it’s not too much trouble, would you mind telling me more about it, if you can? It sounds like one of the more thought out things in the game.



But speaking of local gods and suchlike, I’ve got a couple of stories on that subject that I’d like to share, as I think you’d like them. I like them, anyhow. One is funny sort of funny (although, if you think about it, more very tragic.) and one is not at all funny.

Alright, the first one.

My friend, who is a very religious person, a distant aunt of his is (or was) a christian missionary in some remote and isolated part of Africa. For a time, she and a bunch of other missionaries were working on trying to help a certain isolated tribe see the light, so to speak.

Now, this tribe believed in a certain deity that displeased the missionaries greatly. They all prayed and lavished there attention on this god that lived in a very tall tree. They would pray and prostrate before it, and they would sacrifice lambs and suchlike.

Now, the missionaries would deplore and rail against the god, and tell the people that they were on a one way trip to hell, and all the usual things that they say, but too no avail. The tribesmen would have none of it, and ignored the missionaries completely. “Who are these arrogant white guys, who come to our home and then say that what we do is evil? Well, we certainly won’t listen to them.” The missionaries vowed that god would not allow this to continue.

And the very day after they said this, the tree burnt to the ground. The poor tribesmen had nowhere to turn too but too the gloating missionaries and there manufactured goods.

They passed it off as a miracle, and that is how my friend told the story.

Personally, I have always felt that the missionaries set the tree alight, but I, of course, never said this too him.



The second is pretty short.

Now, living in Canada, it’s not uncommon, very hard, in fact, not too come into contact with people from far away on a daily basis.

One man that I know, a man who I’ve known for a long time, was from somewhere in Africa (I cannot actually remember where.).

Now, where he came from, he grew up putting his faith, and living with, the idea (right or wrong) that all things(animals, plants, rocks, brooms, ect.) had a soul, or spirit, and that the ancestors and these spirits had great influence on how things happened, and life. I suppose they call that animism nowadays, or some sort of new general term like that. Anyways.

So a while back, he had to leave his country. His village was not doing so well, and neither was the rest of the country. There was food shortages, economic stagnation, and a number of other unpleasant happenings, which caused him to decide to come to Canada to avoid suffering along with his fellow countrymen.

One day me and a few other guys were talking about religion and whatnot, and he was not talking all so much, so we asked him a bit of things, and he told us a lot about how things went down in his homeland. We asked if he was still religious like he was when he was younger. He said to us, sounding sort of upset that of course he was. And then, he sighed, and he said. “I am and always will be. But I feel so far away from the spirits here. It’s just like everything is dead.”


I think there good stories, at least.

[Schme]

By the way, if anyone sees my sandwich, could you tell me? It'd be a real big help. Thanks.

[Skarbniq]

The sect in Poland is very interesting sounding. If it’s not too much trouble, would you mind telling me more about it, if you can? It sounds like one of the more thought out things in the game.

Unfortunately after quick development at the beginning, now this religion is in an impasse. Number of "priests" have declined, and even missionary have been killed ... unfortunately after obvious CRB ( missionary have broken rules )

At the beginning they wrote few graces, and described about ten of 100 gods... Unfortunately local conflict became a main concern of "sect" and they stopped developing of religion. Now, when situation is a little more safe and calm, monastery is going to convert whole world - not only polish

[Schme]

Oh, so it is essentially disbanded at the moment?

That's a shame. But who knows. Maybe they'll bounce back.

[Antichrist_Online]

Organised religion is a way for one type of people, the priests (and sympathetic governments), to control the ignorant masses which follow that religion. Hence one of my characters uses the fact his town is a holy place to a religion to extract power over the masses, which is much more effective than standard dictation, "I killed them for defiling a holy place" is easier to get away with than "I killed them because they ceased to amuse me".

In tribal societies everything is tradition and mandatory or a sin and taboo, most of cantr is on a tribal level.
In barbarian societies everything is run on a code of honour which governs choices remotly.
Civilisation is a mix of both, Organised religion is an advanced from of the tribal system of tradition and taboo.

PS: This is my view and related parts to cantr, I'm also been ordained a priest of my own cult, but this is the practical cynesism of religion.

[Schme]

I’m not really talking about organized religion. I’m talking about basic belief system. Huge difference.

For example, a person can be a Christian without direction from the bureaucracy of the Catholic Church. There are rules and sects, but a Christian is a Christian.

Just like in some towns (Not in Cantr) they all believe essentially the same thing, but there are also local stories, or slight variations. But with that tribe, it is still the women from the sky who created the earth, no matter where you go.

Organized religion can be used in the way you describe. But what it is actually for is too enforce orthodoxy and spread the light.

And it is not true that in tribal societies that everything is either tradition or taboo. That is entirely untrue. You are making an extremely broad statement there. Not all tribal based societies are the same, and not all societies are exclusively tribal or non tribal.

I really don’t know what you mean by that at all.

As for “Barbarian” societies, I don’t know what you mean by that either. Barbarian is a concept of “foreigners who are not as sophisticated, smart or virtuous as us.” Was is usually used (when is was used, no one really uses it anymore) to describe other peoples that were not the same as your own, and consequently, inferior. Usually they(Europeans, and what we consider to have been modern and advanced societies) thought that the foreigners were stupid and unsophisticated as they didn’t speak the same language as them.

In fact, the word barbarian was devised by Romans, meaning people (as in entire peoples) who speak nonsense languages, (like going, Bar bar bar….Or something. It meant sort of like bablers.)

Barbarian is just a vague concept, and it is supposed to mean unsophisticated society, without set religion, or, in modern usage, people who are very cruel.

I don’t see where you derive honor system from any of that. No such thing as a “Barbarian society.”

[Antichrist_Online]

I didn't have time to clarify what I meant by barbarian and tribal but it's a special usage of the terms with regards to understanding human behavior, I wrote it quickly before going out.
They refere to the 'pure' forms of behavior, most "tribes" are actually civilised, they mix both kinds of behavior. The "Barbarian" I refere to is one of two systems that model human behavior, "Tribal" is the other, as they are close to our stereotype of these forms of behavior. For example a "Tribal" would have rituals to bury the dead because they've always done it that way, whereas a "Barbarian" would have rituals based on honour/morality/fear of something unknown, and "Civilisation" would have it's rituals for a mixture of the both. Pure "Tribal and pure "Barbarian" societies don't exsist, they are just anthropoligical models.

For a cantrian example, Society is mostly "Barbarian" people sharing a common code of morality, some tribal societies exsist, like the Blackrocks, where everything is controled by them, and they have traditions and codes which separate 'us' from 'them', the larger places are "civilised" in that they have the code of morality but also have traditions, such as foundling belief systems or pollitical systems and formal laws.

And I was refering to the way religion is started in cantr, where one person comes up with a list of beliefs and starts an organisation to follow those set beliefs, in some cases by force. Quite unlike real life where people will come up with their own beliefs then those with similar beliefs group together and influcence eachothers beliefs till a common belief is formed and carried on over time.

The sort of thing I mentioned was a cynical view on religion but if you look there are many cases where religion is used to that extent and is used in small parts to that extent continually. It's much easier to have a people follow one religion and call people who disagree with you "Heretics" than have a multi-religious society and deal with the opinions of others.