Won't somebody please think of the pirates?

[Doug R.]

Crime simply doesn't pay in Cantr.

For the most part, you're right.

[Henkie]

I disagree, one of mine got payed...

A jeep, 15 kilos of rubber, 15 kilos of gas, 4 kilos of propane, 1 kilo of gold, and many many more...

[masterekat]

Yup...one of mine's on board with a good pile of iron and steel and some other stuff and he's at no risk of getting caught at the moment. The RP behind why it was taken from the specific place it was taken was some of the most interesting I've experienced in game too. No one was killed either.

The world most certainly not too small. Just keep it down to one carefully planned, well thought out raid each decade (if you don't want to retire early and start up an evil empire or something), and you'll be golden. Possibly quite literally too.

[Jaxon]

(if you don't want to retire early and start up an evil empire or something), and you'll be golden. Possibly quite literally too.

Easier said than done. There are so few evil empires around because for the most part people don't want to be evil.

[masterekat]

(if you don't want to retire early and start up an evil empire or something), and you'll be golden. Possibly quite literally too.

Easier said than done. There are so few evil empires around because for the most part people don't want to be evil.

Make them. You're the badass with all the weapons and tools. They're the empty-handed newspawns sitting around in their birthday suits.

[Cogliostro]

Once the central game-mechanical simulation of violence is back in working order, a lot of these questions will answer themselves or just won't be relevant any more.

The violence needs to be a) dangerous - deadly consequences b) free from drag interference during battle c) clickfesting should give no advantage to anybody in it.

Given these kinds of fundamental conditions, it'll become worthwhile for people to consider resolving conflicts with force, threat of force and so on, because everyone will experience the risk and excitement of battle on equal footing.

No more being an unkillable machine that insta-cancels damage with onions, or the degenerate situation where instead of doing battle, all people think about is how to get enough friends online at the same time to drag the enemy somewhere.

[Jaxon]

Make them. You're the badass with all the weapons and tools. They're the empty-handed newspawns sitting around in their birthday suits.

That's assuming the raid you did was that bad ass. That takes some luck first. Then once you get some luck, if you start giving newspawns free stuff they can easily betray you in a power grab, or they can leave with your items, or they could turn you in to other people for being evil, or they simply could fall asleep. Not to mention if you kill a few people, you start to get bitter players who join your group just to screw you over out of spite....

[masterekat]

Make them. You're the badass with all the weapons and tools. They're the empty-handed newspawns sitting around in their birthday suits.

That's assuming the raid you did was that bad ass. That takes some luck first. Then once you get some luck, if you start giving newspawns free stuff they can easily betray you in a power grab, or they can leave with your items, or they could turn you in to other people for being evil, or they simply could fall asleep. Not to mention if you kill a few people, you start to get bitter players who join your group just to screw you over out of spite....

Don't just give it to them on day one, make them earn the stuff in increasing value over time, that way you always have the power until you're almost certain they adore you as their leader. They could walk away or use a rickshaw or something like that, but it'd be too easy to outrun them and bring them back at the next town. Or if they try to go by sea, you could chase them down. By the way, if you're thinking of trying to do this on Cantr or Treefeather, no, it's probably not going to work. I'm thinking of the really sparsely populated places. Why would they leave your little piece of paradise if they're going to have to live in an empty location with no machines? And I suppose they could travel for days to tattle on you at the next settlement, but that would just encourage the wars that so many people are longing for lately.

[Jaxon]

Don't just give it to them on day one, make them earn the stuff in increasing value over time, that way you always have the power until you're almost certain they adore you as their leader. They could walk away or use a rickshaw or something like that, but it'd be too easy to outrun them and bring them back at the next town. Or if they try to go by sea, you could chase them down. By the way, if you're thinking of trying to do this on Cantr or Treefeather, no, it's probably not going to work. I'm thinking of the really sparsely populated places. Why would they leave your little piece of paradise if they're going to have to live in an empty location with no machines? And I suppose they could travel for days to tattle on you at the next settlement, but that would just encourage the wars that so many people are longing for lately.

I want you to understand something, what you are saying is easy...if your a good guy. I've done it plenty of times. However, if you intend on being a bad guy, what you are saying is ridiculously hard. Even Blackrock isn't true evil. They aren't going around enslaving whole towns and wiping out others.

Furthermore, you can try to start an evil empire on a remote continent, but what's the point? You get one newspawn a year if your lucky around there and the odds of a newspawn making it to 30 are around 1-5%. Plus how can you be evil without others to do evil things to?

[masterekat]

I want you to understand something, what you are saying is easy...if your a good guy. I've done it plenty of times. However, if you intend on being a bad guy, what you are saying is ridiculously hard. Even Blackrock isn't true evil. They aren't going around enslaving whole towns and wiping out others.

Furthermore, you can try to start an evil empire on a remote continent, but what's the point? You get one newspawn a year if your lucky around there and the odds of a newspawn making it to 30 are around 1-5%. Plus how can you be evil without others to do evil things to?

I do understand the point you're making. Playing a 'bad' character is hard and it takes lots of time, effort, and perseverance. And that going into something that might not pay off. I just don't believe that your point is a valid reason for someone to give up on an attempt at some kind of evil empire as we put it. Also, I don't remember saying anything about 'true evil' or about wiping out others, so I have no idea what Blackrock has to do with any of it. Evil is a subjective word. I don't think many villains actually believe that they are evil.

[Jaxon]

I do understand the point you're making. Playing a 'bad' character is hard and it takes lots of time, effort, and perseverance. And that going into something that might not pay off. I just don't believe that your point is a valid reason for someone to give up on an attempt at some kind of evil empire as we put it. Also, I don't remember saying anything about 'true evil' or about wiping out others, so I have no idea what Blackrock has to do with any of it. Evil is a subjective word. I don't think many villains actually believe that they are evil.

Well if we're not even talking about the same thing, what are we talking about? How about we talk about the most bad ass war/battle you've ever fought in? For me it was the original Blackrock war in Kwor Beach. I was one of the couple of people who managed to get away and alert everyone about the slaughter they committed and I was one of the first people to step foot in Blackrock forest after we drove em out.

[RedQueen.exe]

I want you to understand something, what you are saying is easy...if your a good guy. I've done it plenty of times. However, if you intend on being a bad guy, what you are saying is ridiculously hard. Even Blackrock isn't true evil. They aren't going around enslaving whole towns and wiping out others.

Furthermore, you can try to start an evil empire on a remote continent, but what's the point? You get one newspawn a year if your lucky around there and the odds of a newspawn making it to 30 are around 1-5%. Plus how can you be evil without others to do evil things to?

I do understand the point you're making. Playing a 'bad' character is hard and it takes lots of time, effort, and perseverance. And that going into something that might not pay off. I just don't believe that your point is a valid reason for someone to give up on an attempt at some kind of evil empire as we put it. Also, I don't remember saying anything about 'true evil' or about wiping out others, so I have no idea what Blackrock has to do with any of it. Evil is a subjective word. I don't think many villains actually believe that they are evil.

Exactly what I was going to say. I would say groups like the Blackrocks, Stone Knights, and MacGregors were or are all evil, at least at times. Their stances on free speech, equality, and justice are regressive. Each treats members of their "tribe" as inherently better than outsiders. They demand respect by threat of violence. Whether or not they're viewed as evil at any given moment depends on if they're in conflict currently and with whom. This is how organized evil often manifests itself in the real world. Extremists in regressive Middle Eastern regimes think their regimes are the good guys because they see themselves as "under attack" and disrespected by the west.

The kind of evil some seem to be looking for looks to me, like a caricature of evil from movies and books. Sure, true sociopaths exist, but they rarely organize like that. "Evil" groups in reality, usually believe that it is -they- who are the good guys. This is one of the things I liked about Zjira so much. She had true motive, history, and acted as though she were the wrong party just trying to claim what was rightfully hers. She also didn't go around just randomly killing people either, she gave them the opportunity to be enslaved instead, which I think is important. You can have evil and violence without death, when the "beaten" party is willing to play along.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Evil is a subjective word. I don't think many villains actually believe that they are evil.

This is precisely how I've always played my more negatively charged characters. They never considered themselves evil or recognized that their actions or opinions might be considered dubious at best by more nobly inclined characters.

The kind of evil some seem to be looking for looks to me, like a caricature of evil from movies and books. Sure, true sociopaths exist, but they rarely organize like that.

[/quote]
Yes, I have thought this often. Most seem to think of Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-long Blog sort of evil. "I want to be evil, I am evil!"

Edit: Fixed the quoting error I didn't realize I made earlier.

[Jaxon]

The evil I'm speaking of is a group of conquerors, as I explained before. An evil person knows no limit to their power, they only want more of it. For example, Saddam Hussein was an evil man before the first Gulf War, but it wasn't until he invaded Kuwait that the international community got involved.
The same can be said in Cantr. Evil people are allowed to do whatever they want in their towns, but we don't have evil conquerors (i.e. groups that take over towns and use oppression to silence any opposition.) This is mostly because there aren't many real conquerors out there and it's a pity. Nothing brings more excitement than a good old fashioned battle between good and evil.

[masterekat]

Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-long Blog

<3


On the other hand there are a lot of good guys in Cantr that are like Captain Hammer.