Emoting in the past tense

[Phalynx]

Spare the arguing, go vote in the poll... Missy and BC you should vote!

[Missy]

Spare the arguing, go vote in the poll... Missy and BC you should vote!

I already voted, although I hated the answers, because I would have preferred to be able to say it's natural and doesn't bother me both.

[Doug R.]

Umm, if you consider it natural, it follows that it doesn't bother you.

[Black Canyon]

I did vote. I voted that it didn't bother me. The reason that I didn't choose the last option is that it requires a value judgement regarding the "proper" way to emote and I really don't agree with that.

I agree with emoting and good roleplay, regardless of whether it is in past or present tense. By choosing the last option I am saying that use of past tense is the right (natural) way and using present tense is the wrong (unnatural) way. I've never seen a thread complaining about use of present tense and requesting that it be stopped. Perhaps many would think it ridiculous. And I think it's ridiculous to request that past tense should be stopped.

[Mykey]

Listen, let's not spend more time for it.

[Missy]

Umm, if you consider it natural, it follows that it doesn't bother you.

But I'm not someone who refuses to role-play with others because of their style either. Even I can convert the *I look up at you's* to "*He looks up at her.*

[Doug R.]

Seeing as how the original post was about how past tense emoting made me *feel* when I read it. There are no value judgements associated it. You both said in this thread that it feels natural to you, but you won't stand up for your feelings in the poll. That, to me, makes no sense. This isn't about value, it's about how it makes you feel.

[Nakranoth]

I'm with Doug here... besides, his Avi's more likeable.

[Doug R.]

Umm, if you consider it natural, it follows that it doesn't bother you.

But I'm not someone who refuses to role-play with others because of their style either. Even I can convert the *I look up at you's* to "*He looks up at her.*

Let me rephrase: I'd never enter into a close relationship with a character that emoted in past tense. Why? Because it -really- bothers me. I play my characters full-immersion, so I am exactly the opposite of Missy. I become them, so anything that serves to jolt me from that is highly undesireable to be around. I will deal with past tense emoting characters, but I won't make a point to do anything other than my business and move along.

[Missy]

Umm, if you consider it natural, it follows that it doesn't bother you.

But I'm not someone who refuses to role-play with others because of their style either. Even I can convert the *I look up at you's* to "*He looks up at her.*

Let me rephrase: I'd never enter into a close relationship with a character that emoted in past tense. Why? Because it -really- bothers me. I play my characters full-immersion, so I am exactly the opposite of Missy. I become them, so anything that serves to jolt me from that is highly undesireable to be around. I will deal with past tense emoting characters, but I won't make a point to do anything other than my business and move along.

There are no value judgements associated it.

No, but everything you're talking about is exactly what you just denied doing. I'm for the game pal. Not appeasing an anal player or making others feel like they're unwelcome because of their style of rp because it ANNOYS you.

[Black Canyon]

Seeing as how the original post was about how past tense emoting made me *feel* when I read it. There are no value judgements associated it. You both said in this thread that it feels natural to you, but you won't stand up for your feelings in the poll. That, to me, makes no sense. This isn't about value, it's about how it makes you feel.

This has everything to do with value judgement. The poll option does not say "Past tense is a natural way to emote". It says Past tense is THE natural way to emote. By choosing the third option it is suggesting that Past tense is the correct (natural) way to emote and Present tense is the wrong (unnatural) way to emote. And I don't agree with that.

I agree with emoting and good roleplay, regardless of whether it is in past or present tense. I have never seen a thread complaining about use of present tense and requesting that it be stopped. Many would think this ridiculous. Just as I think it is ridiculous to request that past tense use be stopped.

If there was a choice on the poll which stated "Past tense is a natural way to emote and it doesn't bother me", that is right where I'd be.

[Doug R.]

I'm for the game pal. Not appeasing an anal player or making others feel like they're unwelcome because of their style of rp because it ANNOYS you.

Good for you. Before this post, I never imagined in a million years that people could feel about past tense emoting the same way I feel about present tense emoting. I simply thought it was a concious choice to do something "different," so I made a request for conformity. If past tense is how you naturally think, I wouldn't expect you to change, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, or degrade my own personal Cantr experience by subjecting myself to it. Consider it my own loss and let it rest at that.

[SekoETC]

I 435q+70+2 hate this 03754362 topic and it made my day a bit more miserable, so thank you very much. And you're the one who'd being bigoted, Doug! I feel like flaming so damn much right now that this topic would be friggen locked if I said all I feel like saying.

And I very much feel like switching over to past tense just to make you SUFFER and make sure you will never approach my characters. Since you just said you don't engage in close contact with people who use past tense, such great people such as Missy, and I just gotta say it's your own loss. If you were saying "I refuse to play with black people", or "I refuse to play with women", or things like that, people would be bashing you much harder. But there's not much bashing over being against people who write a certain way, since there isn't even a word for such a thing. This is the first time ever I have heard anyone say something like that, and I simply cannot understand it at all! People who express thoughts in rp, people who spend all their time staring at the horizon with a dreamy look can be annoying, people who write *I smile at you* can be annoying, but I still don't refuse to communicate with them. I can even communicate with the people who write all lowercase and no punctuation, even though it pisses me off to no extent. And I certainly won't go starting a whole damn topic about such a thing because I know half the population disagrees with me.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I emote in present tense because it's more natural to me, for many of the reasons listed in this thread. It is harder for me to read past tense sometimes, because it does kind of jolt me out of my mode of thinking, but others using past tense (or a mixture) doesn't bother me, and I do think that some of the best chars I've come across do emote in past tense.

It doesn't really matter either way anyway, as long as you get your point across. The emoting is only there to describe what a person does/is doing/ did. If you understand that "smiles/is smiling/smiled" means that the person had a smile on their face at some point during the conversation, that's all you really need to know. The point has been made and understood as it was intended. Nothing wrong with having different ways of getting that point across.

I agree with Missy on the 'you' thing, though.. I don't refuse to rp with chars that emote that way, but I do refuse to adapt and use 'you' when emoting with them because my char (and theirs to me) is 'her/him' not 'you'. And I think in 'her/him/name' when I'm thinking about someone or interacting with someone. 'You' is just something I use when I speak to/about someone specifically. It's only something I vocalize, not something I would use to describe, even one on one.

Anyway, that last one is a bit off topic.. and just a few more thoughts. Oh.. and wichi... NO! BAD WICHI! NO FUEL!

[Maelstrom]

*thinks long and hard before stepping into this quagmire*

This is definitely a matter of immersion, I agree with everyone on that, as well as personal preference. Changing of tense during an *emote* is disruptive to it, as is changing the person (1st, 2nd, 3rd) during such text. That's just the rules of grammar.

I would, ideally, write short emotes in present tense, and longer emotes in the past tense. To me they read better as such. A short statement seems much more in the now, whereas a long series of emoting seems artificial and a bit stretched when it's all written in the present tense, especially considering it's a series of events.

*he smiles* Hey, check this out.

*his smile broadened, then suddenly he sprang forward onto his hands, used the momentum to continue the tumble and land on his feet. Once there, he grinned and did a backflip, jumping up and down at the end* pretty neat, huh?

A series of past events leading to the last, which is, then, present.

*he shrugs* I said I would because I in fact, don't. I've been "corrected" in game, no less, by more than one person for my choice of person and/or tense. Anyone who'll complain about the effect on the immersive experience and then have the gall to toss someone an OOC comment about it... well... I don't think I have to say anything about that.

I tend to cater to the audience since neither really bothers or is jarring to me, except popping around tense or person within a single paragraph / post.

Now, the Xth person question is also very interesting to me. I find the 2nd person to be much more intimate, but perhaps disconcertingly so.

*he grins at her*
*he grins at him*
*he grins at you*

There's also the issue that "you" is much more disambiguous, and imo, should only be used in private emotes or behind locked doors. Ahem. Here's why.

*he kisses her* verses *he kisses you*

Now, if someone wanders into said room while the former is being entered and then it's posted after they're arrived, why, your character just kissed them! If the former is used, it's easy enough to assume the 3rd person being referenced is not in fact your character (presuming it's a she) but the other 'her' in the room. Less messy, in my opinion, but apparently right out for some players.

Note that I actually don't have a standard style. I have characters which use present, past, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Depends on who they interact with and the amount of 'dominance' that character seems to show for a given style. Yes, this makes keeping it straight across characters interesting, to say the least, and I do stumble now and again. *he shrugs* big hairy one.

As a final jab, refusing to interact with someone because of their chosen tense speaks poorly of the player. The character doesn't see the events as a sort of time anomoly, it's purely a player response to a player choice, and should not be a deciding factor in the game. You can squeak by with a "Boy, I just don't like Phil Usespasttenseexclusivelyson, but I can't quite put my finger on why." I suppose, but it's a stretch.

For those who want to brush up on their POV in writing (Point of View):
http://classweb.gmu.edu/WAC/somguide/123person.htm
http://www.nyu.edu/classes/op/writing/o ... fview3.htm

For those wanting to read about tense:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/ ... ensec.html
http://www.toolkitzone.com/library.php?mode=read&doc=45

I actually do strongly recommend that those of you who obviously care deeply about this matter read some of those, especially the last link, since it deals specifically with RPGs and Creative Writing.

-Mael the Merciless