Things that annoy or puzzle you about Cantr

[Marian]

You posted a wall of text using the strawman logical fallacy. "But that's like saying", no, that's not what I said. Sure, it's like it, but not it.

I'm talking about kids, not adults. You just had an entire argument with yourself.

No returner, don't you get it, a mentally handicapped person in real life is exactly the same as a childlike character in a browser game that's being played that way on purpose and then deliberately placed into a situation where the player gets to RP out their creepy child-sex fetish in pornographic detail. It's a complete misconception thinking the real person writing out every single one of the character's words and actions has anything at all to do with this process and of course you can't hold them responsible for this very natural behavior.

[returner]

You posted a wall of text using the strawman logical fallacy. "But that's like saying", no, that's not what I said. Sure, it's like it, but not it.

I'm talking about kids, not adults. You just had an entire argument with yourself.

No returner, don't you get it, a mentally handicapped person in real life is exactly the same as a childlike character in a browser game that's being played that way on purpose and then deliberately placed into a situation where the player gets to RP out their creepy child-sex fetish in pornographic detail. It's a complete misconception thinking the real person writing out every single one of the character's words and actions has anything at all to do with this process and of course you can't hold them responsible for this very natural behavior.

I actually laughed out loud (at your sarcasm, not at the subject matter). I think miirkaelisaar completely missed the point and just wanted to rant.

[returner]

edit: accidentally double-posted

[Swingerzetta]

...logical fallacy....

It seems to me that your objection to Miirk's post is based on his choice of words. They were not crafted to the same degree of rigidness that a formal debate might require, but the meaning still came through pretty clear for me. The fact is, the characters in Cantr aren't children, and so them being adults with mental illnesses, or stubbornly clung-to affectations for some reason, is the only logical explanation. Doesn't make it less creepy, doesn't make it 'good rp', necessarily (I haven't met any mentally challenged people who literally just seem really young... there's usually other differences, as well), it just is what it is.

[returner]

...logical fallacy....

It seems to me that your objection to Miirk's post is based on his choice of words. They were not crafted to the same degree of rigidness that a formal debate might require, but the meaning still came through pretty clear for me. The fact is, the characters in Cantr aren't children, and so them being adults with mental illnesses, or stubbornly clung-to affectations for some reason, is the only logical explanation. Doesn't make it less creepy, doesn't make it 'good rp', necessarily (I haven't met any mentally challenged people who literally just seem really young... there's usually other differences, as well), it just is what it is.

That's true. I agree. However - my original contention boils down to something simple: playing an infant that is sexually active is usually poor RP:

it errs on the side of poor RP if you play an infant who is sexually active

His contention was that it isn't poor RP - in fact, made an absolute statement, saying it makes no sense to play otherwise, and thus it's good RP to play infants that have sexual desires:

it makes no sense to assume their bodies can't work naturally and they shouldn't feel adult needs and think adult things

That's where my problem is. Even if this is mental, the mind and body are intertwined - so saying that just because you have a mental handicap you should always think adult things is wrong. In fact, the actual mental condition where an adult has the mind of a child has physiological effects including a child-like response to sexual stimuli. This is because the mind controls the body - for a male, this could mean (as an example) that testosterone is produced at a level lower than that of a teenager.

Anyway, I think it's interesting to discuss. Putting aside everything I've said so far, his argument still doesn't justify that a child-like character should be roleplayed as sexually active in Cantr - from both a general consensus among players who think it is wrong (see all posts in response except Mirks) and from a science perspective.

[NancyLee]

[...]my original contention boils down to something simple: playing an infant that is sexually active is usually poor RP

For me, it's several other things that go far beyond RP being poor or rich. Creepy is the nicest word that I can say.


RoTD: The radio and everything concerning to it. I sometimes would complain in character also if that wouldn't only add more.. noise. I wonder if getting ooc and make the characters delay or cast aside any projects that require being in a room with radio is becoming the norm for anyone else.

[Friar Briar]

I wonder if getting ooc and make the characters delay or cast aside any projects that require being in a room with radio is becoming the norm for anyone else.

None of my characters are or ever will be anywhere near a radio. I made the OOC decision months ago to avoid it so I can keep enjoying this game. The radio allows just staight-up, annoying chatter, and it's being abused beyond reasonable limits.

[computaertist]

I wonder if getting ooc and make the characters delay or cast aside any projects that require being in a room with radio is becoming the norm for anyone else.

How is that even ooc? Why not have your character, IC, grow to hate the radio as much as you and, IC, avoid it at all costs?

For the record, the radio doesn't bother me a bit. But then, I'm one of those who is always puzzled and annoyed by everyone else being puzzled and annoyed by anything but murder, so never mind me; clearly I'm just way to lenient in my thinking of how free people should be in a game.

[Marian]

This is what I've started doing too. If my character has the power to change the radio station, they will, but if not then too bad. There's no good IC explanation but oh well, they'll just have to suck it up and find another way to get clothes or earn that iron.

And as for the other discussion, I'm not seeing anyone but miirk defending people playing sexually active children in-game which is definitely a relief. The fact that the game says they're in their 20s is besides the point. that sort of reminds me of all those anime characters who look like they're...ten or twelve at the most, except the writers just throw in a line somewhere going 'NOPE, she's totally 18, guys!' as if that's all it takes to make sexualizing characters that are designed to look exactly like children perfectly okay.

Our characters have no choice but to just assume that characters who act like 'children' are mentally ill since they wouldn't know what a child is (though molesting the mentally is still not okay y'all...) but we, the players, know that characters don't just 'spawn that way'. Their player chose to make them think and act and oftentimes look like a child, and then gave OOC consent to have them sleep with a character that thinks and acts and looks like an adult, because that shit turns them on.

That's where the creepy part comes in, if it wasn't clear.

And fwiw the players who apparently find it super hot to have their characters jump into bed with someone RPing a child are just as bad. Again, they can claim their characters don't quite realize what's up, but they sure do.

[NancyLee]

Well, for me it's OOC when an action comes from the need of the player to force a situation or action in order to sate a need/desire. Not all my characters have reasons to hate or dislike the radio. I don't share likes and dislikes with most of my characters. Since it's something I oocly don't enjoy, I keep my characters away from it, but that doesn't mean I find it less ooc.

However, I know I am not fully understanding your point, because I don't see the correlation between saying that you don't like something and freedom. I emphasize: saying that you don't like something, not what people should or should not do.
A game, especially a game like Cantr, is made by the players. And that's the way I think it should be. If something is very common (as the radio thing is, to follow with the same situation) I assume that most players either like it or are alright with it, so me not liking it doesn't mean anything at all. Still, I can sometimes feel like ranting about it and I don't feel like I am restricting anyone's freedom.
I believe that the player base has changed a lot in the past few years, thus the game has changed also. The moment when the clash between the game that most players want to play and the game I want to play becomes too violent, I know what I have to do. And the world will keep on turning for everyone.

For the record, after years of playing, I am still puzzled at the willingness some characters show at killing a character who stole one of the 7 tandem bikes that had been laying there collecting rust for years, for instance. But, again, I don't see the link between the facts.

[Marian]

I believe that the player base has changed a lot in the past few years, thus the game has changed also. The moment when the clash between the game that most players want to play and the game I want to play becomes too violent, I know what I have to do. And the world will keep on turning for everyone.

This is how I feel pretty much. I'm still enjoying Cantr, especially now that I'm taking a more laid back approach with RPing my characters, but I feel like like the atmosphere has changed so dramatically it's not the game it used to be. Which is a shame, because mechanics-wise, as far as the variety of things to do and the freedom to do them go the game has never been better, IMO.

For the record, after years of playing, I am still puzzled at the willingness some characters show at killing a character who stole one of the 7 tandem bikes that had been laying there collecting rust for years. But, again, I don't see the link between the facts.

I'm puzzled by the willingness to kill other characters at all, when there are so many other options. People complain about how dead the game is and then actively do their part to make it deader... Same reason I don't get it whenever I see someone claiming what the game needs is more wars.

[SekoETC]

Years back I had a retarded male character who was mentally on the level of a child, even though he was very tall and looked like an adult, so some woman invited him into a building and started groping his private areas. He had no idea what was going on but it scarred him emotionally. It must've been obvious to the woman that he didn't have the capacity to understand what was going on, so why did she do it?

[computaertist]

The correlation is that knowing something is frowned upon makes some people feel less free to do it. However, thanks to you, here in Cantr, I understand better now that that's an unfounded way to feel and we should all ignore this thread and other complaints about how we play and play however we want regardless.

As for what motivates players, I don't speculate. I would be tempted to, except that I've just been shown that character actions are not indicators of player likes and dislikes, even when that might be a doable coarse of action (which I think we'd well established time and again in the past anyway).

("Doable coarse of action" referring to my easily wrong opinion that if the radio is that bad then it can't possibly be difficult to completely in character grow to want to avoid it, and besides characters spawn with all sorts of ingrown likes and dislikes all the time. Praise to the ones I've seen that don't, but they are the exception that makes the rule more visible like a light against the darkness.)

[miirkaelisaar]

If someone didn't understand my point, they're just ignorant. The same people who run around calling people retard becauae they're ignorant. You are not allowed to play a child in cantr, your character has to be 20 or older, by default. People choose to make childlike characters, but that does NOT make them children. And i know people who are mentally like children and still have romantic relationships, you're just ignorant, there's nothing I can say to convince you of the actual facts, because you want it to be creepy. If you're insinuating pediphilia in this game by taking an adult character as a child based on their actions and behavior, I question your own feelings on the sexuality of children, when all cantr characters are clearly stated as "a man" or "a woman" in their twenties or older, you should not be seeing them as children. You're the only ones turning it into something sick and twisted, sorry but that's the truth. Mental incapacity is a real thing regardless of how far your mind is in the gutter. You can't go out there and tell a thirty year old man with mental disabilities he's not allowed to get married if he wants to because in your eyes he's a child, it's discrimination. Childlike characters in cantr should NOT be treated like real children, that is what propogates pedophilia, they should be treated as what they are, an adult with developmental issues. That's just wrong.

[Chroma Key]

I really didn't expect to read this thread and laugh, but here we go...

My naivety has just puzzled me; I really thought that with the death of the char notorious/famous for this sort of "behaviour", all this had died, too. Why did I ever think that she was the sole example?