Overhearing whispers, your opinion

[*Wiro]

All this does as many have said...is instead of a page full of whispers, you get a page full of notes.

If they really wanna keep it a secret, then yes, but I disagree with you that the usual conversations by whisper are now gonna occur by notes.

[playerslayer666]

If we're gonna talk like that - how many people were against it? Two. :S

Anyway, Playerslayer, how can it ruin RP? And no, I don't see getting your little pirate attack ruined as ruined RP, as that, too, opens up RP possibilities.

should i dignify this with an answer after i already explained how?......

scenario: you have a pirate, one player has a blood thirsty soldier, and the pirate wants to take over the town. if he started attacking and dragging people the soldier would get to have a good fight in his once quiet and boring town. the soldier then becomes a hero.....an " evil " hero, but a hero all the same.

BUT if the priates plot is revealed and the pirate is put to jail the soldier goes back to silently farming stuff for the next 15 years. he is not a hero, he does not get to fight anyone, and the town is now as boring as it ever was.

as a player i would be pissed that the priates plot was randomly revealed and i didn't get to make my soldier go bezerk on the pirate. if the soldier was not my toon i would still be pissed that a perfectly good fight was wasted. it would have been fun to watch. but no. now the pirate just rots in jail like a common newspawn theif.

as for summing up the argument i think it comes down to how often it can ruin RP vs how often it might help it.

[playerslayer666]

All this does as many have said...is instead of a page full of whispers, you get a page full of notes.

If they really wanna keep it a secret, then yes, but I disagree with you that the usual conversations by whisper are now gonna occur by notes.

......

you disagree by stating what other people might do...... your not other people. you can't think for us. i'd start using notes too. a lot of people would start using notes. if need be even YOU would have to resort to notes.

people won't have sex in public though.....instead they will write erotic fiction to one another

[*Wiro]

If that's true then why don't I see pages of note exchanging? I still see whispers, so your argument is invalid. As for your scenario, that's a really narrow minded scenario. Most scenarios have more than just a "fun" and a "stupid" outcome, over hundreds.

[SekoETC]

Most conversations are not ruined by one message being overheard. In my opinion if your conversation is that fragile, you shouldn't be having it in public in the first place.

It's true that it can spoil some criminal plans but don't you think that could also create interesting RP? Imagine a newspawn overhears pirates discussing a raid but when they go whisper the town leader that they want to have a chat in private, one of the pirates overhears that and guesses that the newspawn may have heard something. It's kinda like in Treasure Island where Jim was hiding in the barrel of apples, he didn't mean to eavesdrop but he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Also if someone claimed they overheard people planning something criminal, if the town leader didn't hear it personally, they might think that the person who ratted on them might be framing the alleged criminals. I've had people tell my character "that person came to me asking if I'd join them and become a pirate" and if I didn't like the person they ratted on, I might be inclined to believe this, but some people think that people can't be convicted based on hearsay and thus they'd have to let the person leave. Only if the town leader heard it personally, that would spoil the plan for sure.

[Smellfungus]

If we're gonna talk like that - how many people were against it? Two. :S

And how many people even bother to visit the suggestions forums anymore, with the general understanding that's been in place that nothing will get implemented? I know I mostly avoid them now because most threads end with someone talking about how things won't get implemented.

Yes, this is the biggest problem I think, but that is, as far as I can see, fundamentally due to lack of ProgD staff, time and resources. The only solution I can think of is for everybody to chip in any way they can, be it advertising, donations or joining the staff. Nobody is powerless but many are apathetic. "Why do something when somebody else will?" is what a vast majority of people think in this day and age.

But then there's the killers:
"Why should I do something when it wont make a difference?"
and
"Why should I do something to make a difference when nobody else will?"

This is the main problem with our society today. The world is so large that the individual feels insignificant and powerless. What we must bear in mind is that every action has a consequence and even if it's not visible at the moment (if it ever is) every single thing you do changes the world in some way, no matter how small. We are not powerless, each and every person has the strength to change the world. The only people who are powerless are those who believe themselves to be.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I keep feeling like history is repeating itself with relation to making possibly controversial game changes so quickly.

Remember when people were so glad that some changes were announced well before (weeks, not hours/days) they were physically implemented? Sometimes they were slowly introduced, instead of "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" style. Everyone loved that, whether they hated the thing being implemented or not.

At least they had more heads up than a day. More time to voice an opinion whether it was moot or not.

*sigh* I thought we'd learned our lesson regarding that sort of thing.

[Pilot]

Look, this is going nowhere. Why don't you cancel the implementation to calm the players down and continue this debate afterwards?

The way you are handling this situation is making things look like if the game was just for a select group of people and not for all the players. Staff is looking bad.

Only an opinion, I'm not against it or in favor yet.

[Smellfungus]

I keep feeling like history is repeating itself with relation to making possibly controversial game changes so quickly.

Remember when people were so glad that some changes were announced well before (weeks, not hours/days) they were physically implemented? Sometimes they were slowly introduced, instead of "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" style. Everyone loved that, whether they hated the thing being implemented or not.

At least they had more heads up than a day. More time to voice an opinion whether it was moot or not.

*sigh* I thought we'd learned our lesson regarding that sort of thing.

Hmm, I'd lost sight of that point. I dunno about anyone else but this is swiftly becoming too much for me to deal with. There's too many problems and not enough solutions, all the while new problems are arrising.

I think Slowness_Incarnate raises a good point about people not taking this thread seriously. And I agree with alf that it may be a good idea to take it out until everyone calms down. The only danger is that people may be influenced too heavily by the bad vibes surrounding the previous implementation to give it another go and actually find out if it works or not.

[playerslayer666]

If that's true then why don't I see pages of note exchanging? I still see whispers, so your argument is invalid. As for your scenario, that's a really narrow minded scenario. Most scenarios have more than just a "fun" and a "stupid" outcome, over hundreds.

use your head. will people change what their characters do all of a sudden because of a new feature? isn't that kind of a CRB?....well i'd like to think not considering it's a new game mechanic. but still people have always whispered. they are not going to just change it, especially seen as a lot of people are against the change and are not gonna react to it IG.

another question.....how are characters going to react to being able to hear whsipers after years and years of never ever hearing what a person is whispering? that's kinda difficult to RP....well ok maybe not difficult but it is annoying. or at least it sounds annoying. all of a sudden now cantrians have really good hearing.

also what if someone is saying something in OOC and keeping it in a whisper to be polite? THAT is deffinately no one elses business.

Most conversations are not ruined by one message being overheard. In my opinion if your conversation is that fragile, you shouldn't be having it in public in the first place.

It's true that it can spoil some criminal plans but don't you think that could also create interesting RP? Imagine a newspawn overhears pirates discussing a raid but when they go whisper the town leader that they want to have a chat in private, one of the pirates overhears that and guesses that the newspawn may have heard something. It's kinda like in Treasure Island where Jim was hiding in the barrel of apples, he didn't mean to eavesdrop but he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Also if someone claimed they overheard people planning something criminal, if the town leader didn't hear it personally, they might think that the person who ratted on them might be framing the alleged criminals. I've had people tell my character "that person came to me asking if I'd join them and become a pirate" and if I didn't like the person they ratted on, I might be inclined to believe this, but some people think that people can't be convicted based on hearsay and thus they'd have to let the person leave. Only if the town leader heard it personally, that would spoil the plan for sure.

again your logic is based on getting around the new feature.....ok then i'll play along. so if the pirates realize someone is up to what they are planning then they run away or immeadiately put their plan into action. this creates a sudden change of RP based on a random function.....eh wait a minute.....i don't know what made me think of it but doesn't that seem like a CRB? sure it's not cause it's now part of the game.....but people are not suppose to suddenly change their plans based on a random chance of them being overheard.....

now i deffinately don't like it. in certain situations people can accuse other players of using out of game info which explains the sudden change of RP. such a situation is hard to come by, but lets not forget that not everone in cantr is a complete stranger in real life.....

[*Wiro]

If that's true then why don't I see pages of note exchanging? I still see whispers, so your argument is invalid. As for your scenario, that's a really narrow minded scenario. Most scenarios have more than just a "fun" and a "stupid" outcome, over hundreds.

use your head. will people change what their characters do all of a sudden because of a new feature? isn't that kind of a CRB?....well i'd like to think not considering it's a new game mechanic. but still people have always whispered. they are not going to just change it, especially seen as a lot of people are against the change and are not gonna react to it IG.

How about you be a bit less rude about it or just get out of this discussion, calm down, and then consider possibly joining again with reasonable arguments presented in a calm and normal manner?

As for changing people's behaviour, that's a bad argument in my opinion, as every suggestion would have that as result.

[playerslayer666]

I keep feeling like history is repeating itself with relation to making possibly controversial game changes so quickly.

Remember when people were so glad that some changes were announced well before (weeks, not hours/days) they were physically implemented? Sometimes they were slowly introduced, instead of "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" style. Everyone loved that, whether they hated the thing being implemented or not.

At least they had more heads up than a day. More time to voice an opinion whether it was moot or not.

*sigh* I thought we'd learned our lesson regarding that sort of thing.

aparently not

[rconley]

I keep feeling like history is repeating itself with relation to making possibly controversial game changes so quickly.

Remember when people were so glad that some changes were announced well before (weeks, not hours/days) they were physically implemented? Sometimes they were slowly introduced, instead of "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" style. Everyone loved that, whether they hated the thing being implemented or not.

At least they had more heads up than a day. More time to voice an opinion whether it was moot or not.

*sigh* I thought we'd learned our lesson regarding that sort of thing.

Honestly I think that is one of my major problems with this. Definitely agreed with you on this....

[Piscator]

I'm wouldn't be particularly devastated if this was implemented permanently, as long as the chance of being heard was sensible. Which is not to say that I support it - I do not really see why it's needed or what the benefits of it are, besides people complaining about people whispering to each other, which in my opinion isn't much of an issue.

Indeed. So true.

It's true that it can spoil some criminal plans but don't you think that could also create interesting RP? Imagine a newspawn overhears pirates discussing a raid but when they go whisper the town leader that they want to have a chat in private, one of the pirates overhears that and guesses that the newspawn may have heard something. It's kinda like in Treasure Island where Jim was hiding in the barrel of apples, he didn't mean to eavesdrop but he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Don't you think something like that is very, very improbable? I get the strong feeling the whole thing was implemented because of what might happen and not because of what will likely happen.
The supporters of this idea seem to expect that this feature will activate just in the moment something critical is said, creating some uber-awesome roleplay opportunity. What it more like will do is create an surveillance society atmosphere. People will use the whisper option less often, will exchange secret messages via notes and the game will have another arbitrary rule that makes game mechanics less clear.

I'm pretty sure that if this innovation stays in the game, it will pretty much have the same impact on the game illnesses have, ranging from mildly annoying to something that might create roleplay if you're totally and utterly bored.

Oh, and please people, stop your private bickering over who said what and keep this thread legible.

[SekoETC]

It seems to me that attentions have started calming down. Correct me if I'm wrong. Doug wrote in the message to all that there's going to be a test period, so if we suddenly took away the implementation, that would be a bit conflicting.