Cantr Is Dying. What Then Shall We Do?

[Jos Elkink]

I do agree the game gets boring after a while, if you are playing characters that just live a quiet life as a peasant, doing the same routine over and over again.

Without reading most of the discussion above ... I think you might be underestimation how interesting this *can* be. I do think the game would improve if more players would have some really involved players and some much more worker bee type characters. First of all, if you have a *really* involved character, it can almost become like a parttime job. So the idea that would need 15 of them for the game to be interesting is, I think, I misconception. For example, a leader of a big-ish town can be really quite busy. Secondly, minor characters can be really quite interesting by just having a more minor goal, and still being quite goal-oriented. One of the pleasures can simply be the observing of a town around you; another the social aspects of the game; and you can get quite a bit of pleasure out of simple things, like always overcharging your clients ... For those with long term memories, John Woodhouse in Quillanoi was a good example, I think. A simple character - spent his entire, long life digging and selling stone - but also one well-respected in his town, involved in many social events, experiencing coups and many changes in his town around him, and getting really quite rich overall.

[Chris]

If being a leader is too demanding, maybe you're not delegating enough. The most important part of being a leader is watching, developing, and testing other people in order to promote those who are awake, trustworthy, and responsible.

I have two characters who are in secondary positions, under a town leader or company owner. The first is about 10 years older than the second. However, the second (under Leader2) has been trusted with keys and management responsibility. The first (under Leader1) is given only very narrow responsibilities and access, despite being committed and trustworthy. Both leaders are very good at what they do, but Leader1 is carrying a lot more weight because of reluctance to delegate.

[Doug R.]

Chris, in many cases, delegation is not possible because there is simply no one to rely on. I know Cantr is supposed to be slow paced, but if my character is going to entrust yours with keys, your character generally should be awake at least once per weekday, o therwise, I'll keep them to myself. There's nothing more frustrating than having to wait on a sleeping character to get something accomplished.

[formerly known as hf]

I'm gonna second Jos.

I play Cantr a lot, lot less now. Even before, i had someone part-running a town, and that took up more than enough time.

I put in very little time actually playing, but playing a bystander can be really interesting.

There's slots for 15 charries. They don't all have to be infamous...

[Zanthos]

i played cantr a lotttt before i quit this second time, and in all actuality i only check my 2 current toons maybe once or twice a week. depressing really considering that 3 months ago i was on probably about ~12 times a day checking everything.

my problems are that one has too much stuff goin on all the time, the other doesnt have enough. I dont want to deal with one, and cant with the other, everything needs a balance.

once summer comes (under a week till im out of this year of college!) ill probably play more.

[saztronic]

I have to say I don't really see this as being a problem presently -- lack of peasants, surfeit of leader/adventurer/manager types, that is. It may seem that way, but I think in reality it's just less players playing less characters generally. That will equate to less surplus labor, of course, but that's more of a symptom than a root cause -- i.e., it's not that people are choosing to play only leaders, it's that there are fewer people choosing to play at all.

I've said before that I think this is because the game has become less intriguing. Others argue that this is wrong. They argue it's only become less intriguing to those who have played it for a long time. Or, that there's a finite number of people online who would ever have been interested in Cantr's unique qualities in the first place, and as this group weens itself off the game, they're not being replaced because everyone who would have been interested has already played.

I don't think either of these counter-arguments holds water. With hundreds of millions of English-speaking people online, the odds are against only 3500 or so people -- Cantr's English-speaking high-water mark -- ever being interested in this game at a given time. The fact that the numbers of people playing this game have dwindled even as Internet access continues to multiply exponentially also argues that the game is failing to attract, and/or failing to retain, new players.

That's why I started this thread in the first place... DylPickle's contention that wars are impossible strikes me as interesting in this context. A discussion of whether there are too many leaders as opposed to peasants, not as much. The latter wouldn't be a problem if more people were playing. The former might be a reason why they aren't.

[Jos Elkink]

Although I don't want to deny any of those claims, I do have the impression that our biggest problem is not attracting enough players - not so much that we are losing them. For as far as I can see, the number of unsubscribers has been constant for a long time, and the number of expiring accounts follows the trend in the number of applications - so the only thing that really reduces the overall number of players is the number of applications.

The MD is utterly dead, it seems, and there has been very little activity in terms of trying to advertise Cantr. And anyone can help, actually: the biggest influxes of players came from Cantr players talking about Cantr on other forums.

[Doug R.]

the biggest influxes of players came from Cantr players talking about Cantr on other forums.

That's hard to do without being rude. I tried doing that on a free-form RPG site and no one cared, and these are the people we need to make the game interesting. I think why no one cared, is because I had to post it in an advertisements forum which everyone ignores (kind of like how some people never visit the non-Cantr related forum in here).

[Jos Elkink]

Oh, I don't think other RPM sites is the best location at all - most of the players we got was from some random Polish forum, and from a Swedish forum on soccer ... Anywhere works.

About being rude: yes, if you formulate it as an ad, it doesn't work. If you just start chatting about Cantr on a forum where you are already active, it can be fine. And in case of doubt you can always ask the moderators first. (I did ask one, got permission, advertised Cantr, then had another moderator get angry with me ...)

[Chris]

Is there a Cantr banner that we could put in our signature spaces on forums?

[Jos Elkink]

They must be hanging around on the forum somewhere - anyone?

But anyway - it really is discussion that works, not ads (which are ignored) or banners (which only few people notice). Even if you think the game is crap, the discussion will help ...

[SekoETC]

If one had a life outside Cantr...

[Doug R.]

Unfortunately, this is the only forum I am a member of, so I can't be much help on that front. I did talk up the game to my friends on the last game I played, but there were no takers (most became addicted to WoW).

I found this game via a banner ad, and that's saying a lot, considering that I have my settings block all banner ads on websites that I frequent. I actually caught just a -glimpse- of the banner, and then backed up and refreshed the page until it came back. I think half was the green, and the other half what it said, but I can't remember what it said now.

[saztronic]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile creating a Cantr interest group on Facebook. I half-remember somebody did this on MySpace before, but I'm too lazy to search for it.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Only other forum I frequent is the WoW forum. I'm not sure many of those people will take time away from that game to play Cantr (or would have the patience for it; not sure we would want some of the people that would come from there). I could put a link or banner in my sig there though.

I don't really have time/inclination for visiting many places online between WoW, Cantr and life. Most of my rl friends either already play Cantr or wouldn't be interested.