Basis for religion/mysticism

[Stan]

Based on what you're saying (I think) you believe that some of the governments in Cantr ARE religions, just not called religions? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

That actually seems to be the case. If you look at some of the tribes or nomadic groups they do seem to be cultish. Members are willing to give up their lives for the "cause" and the benefits to the character is the acceptance and power they get by participating. This is the case for governments too.

If you look at Seatown Forest, for example. You could even argue that Alicia is almost worshipped there...and surely Maily Yumm has been raised up to almost god-like stature.

[Doug R.]

but I have seen one thing that can be a side effect, if not the main goal, of some religions. Power.

Yes, I was blinded by my monotheistic bias. The youngest religions centered on a man-god (Egypt, Rome, etc) and the pantheon of the deceased. So, when is someone going to set themselves up as a deity? That would be the best start.

[Hellzon]

So, when is someone going to set themselves up as a deity? That would be the best start.

*Scribbles in notebook*

[Torch]

The reason why it works in real life, Torch, is because it actually happened and was witnessed by reliable people...and I get the sense that you know that.

Argh! How to respond to this without offending anyone...

Actual historical evidence of this particular or any religion, beyond actual places and non-miraculous events, doesn't exist beyond accounts from witnesses written accounts, passed down from generation to generation. It's a matter of which reliable witnesses one chooses to believe, assuming they believe any of them, as to which divine guidance system makes more sense to each person. The non-miraculous historical places and events are both more common and easier to prove than people want to admit (at least about religions other than their own), and nearly all major religions now have those occurances. I actually believe, as has been stated here, that most forms of religion as they exist today are much more about power than spirituality. (Notice the words religion and spirituality. If you don't know the difference, feel free to flame me at will, as I'm sure you're doing already instead of reading this...)

Whether I choose to believe in the Christian Bible in some form based on that set of reliable witnesses (while the early church decided some conflicting texts which promote the same goodness without the stringent guidelines required to hold that power weren't as "true", these facts of omitted and concealed texts also based on equally reliable witnesses through history), or the Jewish faith (which from the objective, outside observer is Christianity with one major disagreement), the Muslim doctrines (which in its true form isn't much different from the other two contrary to what many think based on the extremists - of course judging Christianity by the Crusades sort of blurs the lines there too), or whatever, is how I choose to explain the unexplainable, not how well a certain doctrine's mundane events, places, and peoples can be proven.

That's as well as I've been able to type that out with minimal offense to anyone, and none is intended. I used that example as I thought it would be easiest to see, but obviously failed. My point was that if you boil down any current religion, it has the same provable versus faith that would be required in Cantr. And they all, to the outsider, look like poor, confused, misguided people at best, or attempts at manipulation of other people at the worst, either IRL or in-game.

Cantr has changes in phsyics (how people fought, time and resource requirements to make things suddenly changing, etc), unexplainable if accepted idiosyncracies (without some "higher" concept skewing perceptions, why are newly spawned Cantrians just "poofed" into existence and accepted as 20, instead of starting from zero like everything else is perceived? While possibly having the abilities and appearance of a "human" 20 year-old, Cantrians wouldn't know that, and simply start counting from spawing without outside influence), that strange time each day where my characters are unable to move around, talk, or do anything except involuntarily continue to work on whatever project they're on (system maintenance to me, strange outside forces to my characters, should they choose to see them that way), are all great foundations for religion. And the authenticity of many of these past events, such as everyone suddenly having place names taken from them (a la tower of Babel and the confusion of languages, anyone?) is based solely on whether my characters choose to believe reliable in-game "witnesses" or not, as none of them were around for this.

Anyway, sorry for the length, and I'm sure some are still offended. Can't please everyone, I guess. But in the spirit of this time of year, everyone enjoy their Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Solstice, or whatever other holiday you may or may not be celebrating. If nothing else, enjoy a free day off work if you have one. That's hard to beat no matter what you believe...

[Nalaris]

Of course, mentioning one of those holidays is going to offend someone who hates the religion that celebrates that holiday, but if you said something like "Happy Holidays" it would offend someone who, like me, is really getting tired of the political correctness debates going around (WHO CARES IF THE SCHOOLS TEACH THE INTELLIGENT DESIGN THEORY?!? WHO CARES?!?). Failing to offend anyone for that, someone may not feel that "and other holidays you may be celebrating" enough to encompass Saturnalia, or whatever. But I guess you did the best you could.

[The Sociologist]

If you look at Seatown Forest, for example. You could even argue that Alicia is almost worshipped there...and surely Maily Yumm has been raised up to almost god-like stature.

Yes, in a world of oral tradition, the story of Maily Yumm would be told and retold, until eventually in the telling she would indeed become a goddess and her deeds supernatural. Indeed, "Yaweh" was doubtless some local hilltop chief in times long past.

Unfortunately, Cantr uses notes, and the cutting and pasting of text. So there is little opportunity for stories to "grow in the telling". What I have also noticed is that there is very little writing of history in the game these days, doubtless due to there being very little to write about since the tiredness system made significant combat much less likely. No more heroic epics. Who would write the history of drojf over the past 200 days? Nobody. It doesn't have a history.

Mostly these days it's all about keys and locks, and who is going to write a heroic epic about Goram Yoful being locked out of Seatown Forest? No, I don't think so.

But it would be quite fun for the Mac Gregors to have a shot at deifying their late lord....maybe.

[Sicofonte]

Can at least be possible a project for praying?

You know:

1673-1.17: You see a man praying.


It could be as the playing music projects. But I'll prefer to specify a time for the project (you can't pray instantly, and you shouldn't pray while doing anything else).
Of course, no outcome for the project.


We (the people willing to create a religion) NEED some way to show the others characters that praying is something considerated in the game. Not just one odd guy writing that he is praying.


PS: I'm an atheist scientist

[Nakranoth]

But then, if you've written that you're praying... or better yet, actually write out a prayer in game, then you are, in fact, praying. We don't need a pray button.

[Liljum]

I can't see the reson for adding praying as projekt.

If adding praying as a projekt, then why not dancing/sleeping/smiling/walking in and out of buildings, and so on...

I like it as it is now. Emoted praying.

I do have a character that prays to the higher powers.

[Sicofonte]

The reason is silly, but is (in the case of timetaking projects): to avoid people praying doing anything else during their prays.

In RL, you can't see a Buddhist or a Christian or a Muslim praying while they are cooking in the kitchen or plowing in the fields.


Another suggestion to give more sense to the praying project: only possible inside a temple.
In that case a temple should be a different kind of building, something not used as a residence, but as a place of meeting and praying. There could be different kinds according to the construction materials.

Or better than that, an ALTAR. It can be builded inside a building, made of marble (any of my chars saw it never) or stone, and possible decorated with adornment (metals, minerals or precious stones). Building requirements similar to stone landmarks, or higher.
A praying project then could be only performed in a building with an altar.
Several praying proyects could be implemented allowing sacrificies, burning meat, vegetables or corpses.

[formerly known as hf]

That's a pretty narrow use of the term 'prayer'

Music can be prayer and worship.

Work can be prayer and worship.

Who says Cantrian religions must look like common real life ones?


How about a blacksmith God, where hard work at the smelter is considered prayer?

[Phalynx]

I pray while I drive and work... this is not a good suggestion... unless of course praying, like resting has a restorative effect on people...

I'd love to play a faith healer in cantr.....

"Let me pray for you boy... for just 200g of Iron I can heal all your wounds... you must only believe.. Believe! *spittle forms at the corners of his mouth*"

[Kanon]

Why religion has to be based on something fantastic? It is mandatory that a religion has to be built around fantastic events? Maybe Cantrians can form a religion based solely on their spirituality, and not an omnipotent being or similar...

[Marian]

I don't think praying should be a project either...that's another thing that's handled just fine (if not better) with emotes.

Still, I do think there could be more items, furniture, etc in the game for people who are trying to start religions to work with. I've actually been thinking about a big post on it for awhile now, maybe I'll get some time to write it in a little while.

[Nalaris]

My personal take on this is that without an actual God to cause miracles (or unexplainable events to give rise to mythologies), the only way someone will be able to set up a religion is the same way every other man-made religion has: someone has to set themselves as a God-King. Any current ruler could do it, or someone could found a new town based off of their religion. Once the basic religion has been set up an expanded mythology can be created (and the Kings could leave records glorifying their triumphs as great legends!), or spin-offs could be created. And once the religion-state has been done two or three times, Cantr may be ripe for a religion without borders.

Oh, the possibilities!