What is the purpose?

[rklenseth]

I don't think weapons or keys are symbols of power. One man with a sabre and a locked building can do little and has little power. Those things are illusions of power.

Real power is in groups, organizations, and the such. The Alexian Empire, Alenz Hills Mining Company, and DoUrden Estates are all symbols of power because they were able to organize large groups of people and get things done. They also have had lasting power on the cultures of the places they touched. Those are symbols of true power.

Military powers, perhaps.

But I still think single people can make statements that will forever last in Cantr History, as long as characters pass on the 'lore from generation to generation. An example of which, would be El Adan standing up to the SJs.

It has been immortalized in writing and is epitomized in a still living family, the Nosse.

But in the end, it was the combined forces of the Seatown Warriors that ended the reign of the Alliance (commonly referred to the Smoke Jaguars). Now I'm not saying they can't give inspirational power and courage but I'm talking more along the lines of physical power and in most cases unless you have physical power to back you up things like El Adan (which I never heard of in game even though I had many characters throughout that region during those times) then most likely it will never come to anything. Now there are cases where it does for example Ireland in the real world. But for the most part Irelands don't happen in the real world or in the Cantr world.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

Oh.. sacrifices (well, kinda) every year.... sounds like fun! But yea.. I see what you're saying... it's hard to get players past their own morals and into things that their characters (without their players background) would do... like sacrifices...

It would be cool to see some societies similar to those of ancient peoples like the Mayas or Aztecs or what-have-you... not just like them, but similar.. 'Cos I think there'd be some societies like that if more of the characters weren't as influenced by what their players ideals and morals are..

[The Sociologist]

Real power is in groups, organizations, and the such.

Correct. The true challenge of the game is to bend others to your will, or else bind all individual wills to a common cause. This is achieved partly though material power, partly through the charisma of the character and partly through the creation of cultural forms.

The Alexian Empire, Alenz Hills Mining Company, and DoUrden Estates are all symbols of power because they were able to organize large groups of people and get things done. They also have had lasting power on the cultures of the places they touched. Those are symbols of true power.

I cannot agree with the above instances, however. Where is the in-game history of the Lad Empire? As far as my local character knows, Lad is a handful of people presided over by a charming old geezer called Brian. Of its history he knows nothing.

The only time I've heard of DoUrden is here on the forums. None of my characters have encountered anything to do with him/her/it/them(?) inside the game itself, albeit that they've covered that whole area in recent times. And apart from some anti-Piers propaganda still floating around Cantr City, the same thing applies to Alenz Hills.

If you want to find examples of lasting cultural power, these would be the Mac Gregors (above all), Maily Yumm and the Rangers, thanks exclusively to John Locke, and El Adan and the Nossé, thanks almost entirely to Taowyn. And such longevity of the impulse is achieved through the writing of history.

Caesar didn't write his Gallic Wars as a retirement hobby, you know. And just consider: said book was stuffed down the throat of just about every schoolboy for something like 2000 years. In half the languages of Europe Caesar, once a family surname, now means Emperor. Not a bad innings.

[rklenseth]

Both Naron and Ladvicitavoi are still contructed around the establishments of the old Empire. Alenz Hills is still a large mining community. DoUrden stopped the advances of the the Alexian Empire.

But you missed one of my main points. Unless there is a physical power to step in and uphold those stories of El Adan then they are all for nothing. The Seatown Warriors defeated the Alliance. The MacGregors came from the Seatown Warriors. John Locke was a Seatown Warrior. Maily Yumm was not but she was the successor to Donna Trent that who led the Seatown Warriors. If the Alliance had stayed in power and even gone as far as defeated the Seatown Warriors than the stories of El Adan who have most likely died and all of the other stories written by Locke, Yumm, and countless others of that region would have never been. Only in very rare cases does the opposite happen; see my example of Ireland. So Cultural Power is powerful but many times without the backing of physical power it is nothing.

The Alexian Empire was about building civilization and an organized civilization where everyone served the greater good. DoUrden and Alenz Hills were the opposite of that ideal and clashed. DoUrden curtailed the Alexian Empire in the Battle of Brinks Forest. I think later DoUrden was wiped out by the sneezing disease though remnants of it might still exist. The Alexian Empire has broken apart but both Ladvicitavoi and Naron still maintain many of the cultural aspects and organization of the old. The only thing that it lacks are ambitious leaders willing to take that vision from without their borders. So these three groups lasting effects on history and the cultures even if they aren't as powerful as they are today are great. And remember, nothing would be the way it is today in the Krif/Drojf/Seatown region without the victory of the Seatown Warriors over the Alliance (commonly known at the Smoke Jaguars). And further, what if Maynard Leeward never left power and the First Krif Empire had remained intact? None of what we were arguing about would have never happened. The Alliance were two groups joining together; the Drojf Freedom Fighters and the Krif Dark Legion. The Seatown Warriors were two groups joining together; the Krif Freedom Fighters and the people of Seatown Forest. If the First Krif Empire had remained intact and Leeward in power then none of these groups would have ever allied with each other.

[Ahoyhoy]

I wanna explore the world. Unless it's all been explored. Then I dunno. My dreams will be gone so I'll be an accountant. That's the job of the lost dreamer.

[Bran-Muffin]

Have fun exploring

[Talapus]

The place where you spawned has probably been well explored already, but if you read around the forum a bit, you will find out that there are plenty of islands and other lands out there that no one has ever set foot on. Good luck.

[rklenseth]

I wanna explore the world. Unless it's all been explored. Then I dunno. My dreams will be gone so I'll be an accountant. That's the job of the lost dreamer.

I'm pretty sure there is much yet to explore.

[nitefyre]

Locke's had pretty thorough experience everywhere, starting with the 'March of the MacGregors' which Glen Chronicles, to just being out on the road, as Collin Munk wrote about in 'A Tale of the Road', all the way to serving in the Seatown Forest area. A comprehensive history to back his writings upon. If anyone is keeping up with it, he'll be publishing another sizeable work, in an entirely different format from the novel like 'Ranger's Tale.' It's going to be something you'd find in a CD case, with liner notes and all. Instead of just lyrics, it'll be poems as well. An anthology of sorts, all based on the history of the Region, as well as that of his life. Some the works aren't as up to par as the others, but that's because it also shows his progression in the field of expressing himself through cultural forms. That's something I never see enough of in Cantr, as long as it sticks with the true social, political and economic aspects of the area in mention.

There are very interesting poems (actually) written by other documentists (not stolen), such as Taowyn, and Maily had one or two as well, some of which made it into the 'Ranger's Tale.' If you're in for 5,022 words through the eyes of a character of KDS who goes through the events of the recent half of the Cantr timeline, then check it out. Re-released in a library/floor near you.

[west]

He was never a Seatown Warrior, though, RKL. That's considerably before Locke's time.

[nitefyre]

Though the influence was clearly there and did just that.

[rklenseth]

He was never a Seatown Warrior, though, RKL. That's considerably before Locke's time.

My memory gets fuzzy at that point as well as the propaganda by the MacGregors.

I think Locke was around. I guess only Nitefyre could answer that question.

[Nick]

The Alliance were two groups joining together; the Drojf Freedom Fighters and the Krif Dark Legion.

I don't remember that?

[The Sociologist]

The Seatown Warriors defeated the Alliance. The MacGregors came from the Seatown Warriors. John Locke was a Seatown Warrior. Maily Yumm was not but she was the successor to Donna Trent that who led the Seatown Warriors.

The Alexian Empire was about building civilization and an organized civilization where everyone served the greater good. DoUrden and Alenz Hills were the opposite of that ideal and clashed. DoUrden curtailed the Alexian Empire in the Battle of Brinks Forest.

You see, the problem is you are using the forum to establish "histories" which should have been established in-game. Without in-game histories, what gets said here is irrelevant.

My characters have read notes by Morangie, Mac Gregor and Locke, so those are the only histories they know. Such notes make little mention of "Seatown Warriors", though they do make a big fuss of Maily Yumm.

Same applies to the other areas. None of my characters know who the great emperors of Lad were, what speeches they made, what they tried to achieve... And I repeat, none of them have heard of DoUrden.

It seems that the earlier emperors and the whole of DoUrden have left no lasting legacy which will inspire people to continue to act in their name.

Finally, in it's current supine condition, the game provides little incentive to write further histories since nothing happens. The GAC people wanted to destroy the nasty pirates attacking "their" KDF. Well they succeeded....and pretty much wrecked the game at the same time.

[west]

He was never a Seatown Warrior, though, RKL. That's considerably before Locke's time.

My memory gets fuzzy at that point as well as the propaganda by the MacGregors.

I think Locke was around. I guess only Nitefyre could answer that question.

Locke is slightly younger than my Ranger, who was spawned in the late 500s, my 3rd new character AFTER El Adan and the rest of my first account died, and just a few days after Maynard stepped down, so he is too young to have been a Seatown Warrior.

I have no idea where you get your information as to who the Alliance and the Seatown Warriors were, but IIRC the Smoke Jaguars and the Freedom Fighters (incl. Jame DeLeo, I think) briefly allied, because the FFs didn't realize the true aims of the FFs. I don't know where the Dark Legion fits in, but I DO know that the Smoke Jaguars controlled their outpost in DHS for at least a year before they (SJs) took over Drojf.

RKL, you're a great guy but I take most of your recollections of that area with a grain of salt, especially since the time you repeatedly persisted in calling one of my characters the name of a totally different regional entity, despite clear evidence to the contrary (including the arrival in SF of said entity later that day).