copy/paste conversation (this is just a rant)

[trage]

Because we know people use these little tricks to get away with things.

We also shouldn't forget about the copy and pasting of finished projects on the event page. There are a lot of players that consider that the only method of telling who owns what but little do they know that players are abusing it everyday to get away with things they wouldn't normally get away.

As a player myself, I ignore copy and paste and it has gotten some of my characters in trouble who didn't do anything as well as get some players pissed off at me because I won't do things the easy way.

I know, I was pointing out something else.

I don't like it in any form. If your character is too busy to keep up a real diary then perhaps he shouldn't keep one at all...

I must agree here. Write a real diary instead of just copying and pasting events. It's not that hard.

[Revanael]

...There are a lot of players that consider that the only method of telling who owns what but little do they know that players are abusing it everyday to get away with things they wouldn't normally get away...

Exactly. We're allowing people to steal and lie in game without even having to be imaginative. Which seems pointless. They should have to be creative.

...Write a real diary instead of just copying and pasting events. It's not that hard.

Agree. And the time-consuming nature of a diary HAS to be there. If you need OOC records of events, you have the player reports. They exist to remind you of what's happened. A character's diary is to remind THEM, from their point of view. Do you remember and write down every single thing that happens to you, as it happens, with full time records etc? No. So why would your character?

You notice the patern of how a lot of the older players hate this.

Nobody who's posted in this topic has actually spoken against a ban. They've said it might be hard to enforce, but then so is the CR, sometimes. Does anyone actually think a ban would be detrimental to the game?

[myst]

My charaacters don't keep accurate notes of everything. Btu Cantr takes so much time as it is, with pages taking so long to load, etc, that I cant spend MY time on them - I'm too lazy to keep a real diar y for just me, let alone 6-8 characters! _They_ have enough time. Why make ME go through it all and change the format slightly?

I don't see why they cant write whatever they want. Obviously taking full pages of everything is a abusing it a bit, but when its just a note saying what some thief did for myself at some later date - well, I don't see the issue. My personal time available shouldn't influence my IC characters ability to remember things.

To reiterate: I think the ban should apply to speech. You have to say things IC as the character is saying them. But you can write whatever you want.

[Oasis]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Myst. I do try to write some things more naturally, like a report, or a history. But time is the ultimate factor, and players shouldn't be penalized for their lack of it.

[Agar]

I don't want a ban on this, I have at least one character who's life is centered around a forged note.

I, and many other people, have 15 characters. A diary for each would consume far far too much of my IRL time. I don't even keep a dairy IRL, never have, so why would my characters have to?

[formerly known as hf]

I still don;t think there'd be much point in a ban - mostly because it'd be too difficult to be enforced.

If some wants to say "project X finsihed, ending up with X grams on the ground' they can go ahead as far as I'm concerned, it's annoying, and lazy, but I'm not going to put my head up my... well you know...

If you're a good RPer, you'll explain why you;re picking things up wihtout resorting to cut and paste, you'll write notes and describe events without using cut and paste...

and, if you;re like me, you'll make a point of laughing/pointing out to whomever does that it just looks silly...

I see no reason why any diaries kept outside of the game should not use copy and paste - I used to keep a 'log' of what one of my character owend/was owed - I kept that as a txt file on my computer - I see no problem with that, like Oasis said, sometimes there's just not enough time to write it properly

- but I don't think anything in Cantr should use that format, even in game diaries - and it should be a matter of principle, not a ban...

But if it could be banned - that'd be two thumbs up from me...

[SekoETC]

But would you say its wrong for people to use in private diaries? If you try to write those properly - well, you wouldn't have time for real life at all!

If it drops on the ground after the character dies, it's not private. If you keep that kind of "diary" in the memory of your computer it's ok, but if it's included in a note, there is a chance someone has to suffer from reading it. And what if you forged in imaginated events? Stupid people might believe in them just because they look like they've been ripped out of turn reports and someone might die because of that. If you don't feel like keeping IC diary that's ok, lots of characters won't. But if you do, do it with style! (Btw it's a good chance to pass time when nothing is happening.)

And real life - what's that? I spend far more time on character diaries than my own. If I didn't I'd just end up filling half of my diary telling what has happened in Cantr. Ok you know I'm an addict...

[Agar]

If you keep that kind of "diary" in the memory of your computer it's ok, but if it's included in a note, there is a chance someone has to suffer from reading it. And what if you forged in imaginated events? Stupid people might believe in them just because they look like they've been ripped out of turn reports and someone might die because of that.

That sounds like fun. Now, where can I go to cause trouble...

[rklenseth]

I still don;t think there'd be much point in a ban - mostly because it'd be too difficult to be enforced.

It'd be quite easy to enforce. All it requires is a simple code that disallows right-clicking on the page and another code that disallows the command keys of crtl,c and crtl,v. And that would be the end of copy and paste. People would still be able to copy and paste from turn reports though.

[formerly known as hf]

I see no problem in using it to fool people - that's no reason to ban it (the ugliness of it in Cantr is though...) anyone prepared to beleive that what looks like copy/paste is true... well, they deserve what's a-comin to them...

Please don't ban the complete use of copy and paste - I use it regularly for updating the names of new people (Hello, my name is such and such - copy name, paste into desscription) - I don't want to have to start remembering how to type some of those weird names out there...

<edited because it made no sense first time - no more smirnoff for me toinight>

[SekoETC]

Disabling copy and paste alltogether, are you nuts??? That would totally wreck rp and long speeches. It may take half an hour to edit something offline and then post it, if you could not paste it into the Say box then grr... And I also sometimes copy long turns from the screen so that I would remember what I'm replying to when I'm writing. And yes, also tend to copy names straight, it's faster that way and it doesn't hurt anyone since the only one seeing them is yourself. Do not disable it technically, make it a thing similar to the capital rule. Actually it might fit into the capital rule since characters cannot see game-technical stuff so ripping off computer-generated messages would be using OOC knowledge. (The character does not see: Project X has ended, only the player.)

[formerly known as hf]

Actually it might fit into the capital rule since characters cannot see game-technical stuff so ripping off computer-generated messages would be using OOC knowledge. (The character does not see: Project X has ended, only the player.)

YES!

Very good point - anyone around here to set that in stone?

Copy/Pasting directly of events as a CR breach?

[Revanael]

As I said, remember the player reports you get emailed when you click the links! What are they for if not to keep track of your characters OOC?

Also, if you don;t have enough time to roleplay your existing characters properly, you shouldn't have that many. I have about 8 now, and I'd probably find 6 ideal.

Myst: you can write whatever you want - where there is no chance of it affecting other players in game! You can make whatever OOIC notes you want on your own game - just keep them out of IC conversation and notes!

I think any use of direct event pasting IN GAME (ie. notes and speech - of course copying names to paste in the name field is fine!) should be forbidden. Then it will not be difficult to prevent it in game - coming down like a tonne of bricks on someone, especially en mass, tends to have the required effect.

Farmer/Seko: I think it's been suggested before that pasting of events directly is at least dubious activity.

Disabling copying and pasting would be a very bad idea, however - and would also not be too difficult to circumvent for those with the knowledge and effort.

[The Sociologist]

I'm in a bad mood tonight, so I'm going to be contrary, just to give you all someone to shout at.

Read any legal documents lately? All full of the "party of the third part" and "heretofore mentioned", while in Roman and Roman-Dutch legal systems they actually still spout great gobs of Latin to boot.

OK, so in some parts of Cantr, whenever you want to pick anything off the ground, you have to recite legalistic phrases like:
975-2: You say: "Project Digging for stone has been finished (364 grams, ending up on the ground)."

If you don't, you will get sabered. And in other parts of Cantr you will be sabered if you do. What fun! The beginnings of legal-cultural systems which are at variance with each other. I'm cool with that.

So there, now draw your sabers and gut my innards.
.

[Pirog]

I agree that disallowing copy/paste would be a disaster. It can be used a lot without having any shady motives.

Keeping copy/paste records out of the game is perfectly allright, but as Seko pointed out, even personal records in-game will some day drop to the ground. She talked about the dangers of forged copy/paste notes, but I see an almost greater danger in non-forged records.
Take the SF-Drojf-Krif region for example. If someone would die and drop a complete cut/paste record of dozens of important happenings from years back it could alter the allready existing history of the region.

Read any legal documents lately? All full of the "party of the third part" and "heretofore mentioned", while in Roman and Roman-Dutch legal systems they actually still spout great gobs of Latin to boot.

I don't see the similarity to copy/paste records. Formal notes, however accurate, are still written by someone who will make their mark on the document simply by phrasing it.
The only similarity to copy/paste records would be some form of video camera...and that is something I hope to never see in Cantr