Oven (moved to General Discussion)

General out-of-character discussion among players of Cantr II.

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jeslange
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Postby jeslange » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:13 am

Some cons of not having cooking multiplyable:

1)It's inconvenient for players who don't login everyday, who also cook frequently.

2)It doesn't also have as immediate an effect on societies who make greater use of non-cookable foods.

3)The various rants others have already mentioned :wink:


Some Pros of not having cooking multiplyable:

1)It can increase balance of power levels between players who spend alot of time playing and those who can't play as much, especially in societies which depend on/freguently use cooked food, because it creates an important position that even a newspawn of a new char can do. As it is now, postitions which require wakefulness often go to older chars due to issues of trust, stature, etc. (IE:town leaders, military commanders,).

2)It can encourage a more indoor aspect of societies. As it is, there is little reason for wakeful people to be amongst those who are frequently inside. They mostly only need to go in to make sure materials are supplied to the less important chars who are doing the labor. So, most important decisions/events, and even many "meetings", take place outside. Inside jobs are often boring for the chars and the players of those chars, because it is often lonely or quiet.

3)It encourages cooked food to carry cultural implications in societies where it is more efficient to mainly consume food which doesn't need to be cooked. (This was part of the original idea of cooked foods). What I mean is, cooked food will exist because chars want something special. "Special" implies that cooked food may be used as gifts, or other things related to culture, rather than just being something necessary.

4)Animals have negatively affected the intended food trade between towns who have non-cookable food and those which have valuable resources, but don't have non-cookable food. Making cooking projects not multiplyable may stimulate more trading for non-cookables.
The Industriallist
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Postby The Industriallist » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:46 am

Non-multiplyable cooking doesn't stop anyone but the least active players from cooking effectively, but it does bother anyone who has to cook.

The players it benefits (relatively) are the ones like me who log on all the time. We already have enough advantages, I would say...

I don't understand points 2 or 3...you just have to go check your peons more often, and they have to wake up more often...but that won't make the leaders move inside.
I don't see how it promotes symbolic use of cooked food at all. It isn't as if the food is much more valuable.

As for point 4...it takes a lot more work to trade for 1000g of carrots than to log on once a day and keep the firepit burning. A lot more. If you want to weaken meat, make it slower to produce, not more irritating.
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jeslange
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Postby jeslange » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:45 am

Genevieve's last post and my last post seem to have disappeared.
***********
Genevieve basically said that If the current way is going to stick, there could be larger ovens or huge ovens. She also suggested the use of generators in conjunction w/ ovens.

***********
I basically said commercial ovens sound good, and that while I have a problem w/ cooking a degradable resource for 2 weeks or such, I don't have a problem w/ checking the current ovens to see if their daily yield might be somewhat increased.
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Oasis
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Postby Oasis » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:21 am

They seem to have been moved to suggestions.
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creepyguyinblack
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Postby creepyguyinblack » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:47 pm

Another problem I noticed is that one of my characters wanted to make popcorn, but with no multiplier, he could only make 750g at a time, when he only has 500g or so of corn, making the corn he has useless.
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joshua johnson
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Postby joshua johnson » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:22 pm

It is my opinion, that ovens, or commercial grade ovens, should be superior in output to simple gathering, or even tool aided gathering. The reason I beleive this is that ovens use up resources, gathering and tool aided gathering do not.

Now, speaking of complicating the food industry, how about adding seasonality to the collection times. Each item could have a "harvestable time", and when it is not harvestable, the next harvestable time is listed. So food could be gathered perhaps half the year and not the other half.
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NetherSpawn
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Postby NetherSpawn » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:22 pm

Back on the topic...
The trouble with food is mainly that it's too easy to get in towns, not in forests. While I agree that it is rather easy to sustain yourself on grilling meat if there are enough firepits/spits, but isn't that the point of the spit? Besides that, towns all have a food that you can harvest at least 8 days of every day. Grilled meat is less than 5 days per day of cooking, and takes over half a day of wood. I would estimate it's daily output at a little over 3 days of food per day. That's an incentive to trade for food. The problem is getting towns to trade or getting traders who go through towns to trade, not getting people in forests to trade. They do it with relative frequency. Actually, forests are often the best place to go to trade for any industrial product because people who care about industry frequently congregate in hematite or coal forests.

I propose putting a MINIMUM on agricultural products instead. Say, 5-10 days. That would give people passing through an incentive to trade for them. It would hurt newspawns, unfortunately, but on the other hand it makes sense for real world physics. Since Cantr physics are apparently allowed to shift significantly at any time, I have no problem with this on that front.
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Spider
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Postby Spider » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:11 am

Has this been "fixed"?
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jeslange
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Postby jeslange » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:05 am

Any type of baking bread project is again multiplyable. I'll go play with commercial grade ovens now.
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jeslange
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Postby jeslange » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:13 am

But, don't expect to be able to cook alot in one day and also have it multiplyable :P
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TheTheorist
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Postby TheTheorist » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:32 am

If you're cutting down the rate of cooking meat you should make it that potatoes have to be baked before they can be eaten also. Fairs fair.

800g Potatoes a day to produce 400g of baked potatoes eaten @ 50g a day... 8 meals just like the meat.
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TheTheorist
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Postby TheTheorist » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:34 am

jeslange wrote:But, don't expect to be able to cook alot in one day and also have it multiplyable :P


Would you let us put a pot in the oven to cook more meat that way? A more efficient (wood wise) version of cooking on a firepit? :D
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formerly known as hf
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Postby formerly known as hf » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:25 pm

I said this in another thread...

It seems silly that some foods can be eaten, and others increase health, but can't be eaten when hungry...

Who decided that potatoes are food, and onions heal?

Why not have healing food only available via cooking... and all raw foods can be cooked, and the addition of many new dishes for ovens etc... It would promote the job of chef to a much higher status...
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jeslange
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Postby jeslange » Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:54 pm

All oven projects are now multiplyable again.
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TheTheorist
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Postby TheTheorist » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:19 pm

:D
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