Balancing the Risks

[freiana]

I am being very curious here. What is the ratio between people who DO want the combat system changed and the people who do NOT want that? Maybe it is just me, but it feels like there is a small group of people posting miles and miles of text (yes, I did read it, but I guess many others won't) on why and how it should be said, and everytime it gets answered by a group of people who say; yeah, well, I actually don't think we need this. So... Can we have a poll in this topic, maybe? Or something like that?

[Nalaris]

The forums of a game are never representative of the population of a game. Further, the answers to one specific poll on a forum are rarely representative of the forum-goers at large. A poll would be useless and worse, would muddy the conversation with bad data which people will think means much more than it does.

[freiana]

Do you have any better way of seeing if this idea is accepted by the larger part of the players? This is how we accept -any- suggestion in game, isn't it? How else are we going to make decisions?

[Nalaris]

Um. The number of development teams that make decisions based primarily off of horribly non-comprehensive polls of their fanbase is basically zero. You can gauge the merit of an idea in general without asking for a group consensus. As a general rule, the teams that chase trends and polls are the ones who churn out trash that panders to whatever's popular at the moment, rather than sticking to any sort of unified vision. Your fanbase isn't organized, is primarily made up of people with little experience or concern for the game and its longterm health, and often have biases towards improving their position within the game rather than making it better in general, so it's a terrible idea to religiously do whatever a poll says, even one that somehow managed to reach and get feedback from 100% of your players.

[freiana]

I didn't say we JUST do what the poll said... All I asked for is an indication about the ratio of players who want vs do not want such drastic changes. If you take a look at the suggestions forum that is not such a weird idea, I think. Obviously the decision is based on a lot more, but if there are two people for and ten people against a suggestion it might just not be such a good idea... I am simply -curious- about what people think about it.

[Nalaris]

Your curiosity will not be slaked by any kind of poll unless you are fool enough to believe data that is clearly inaccurate. A poll will tell us nothing.

Regardless, if the group thinks that Cantrian combat is fine as it is, the group is wrong. Cantr is a slow-paced game with little incentive to check in more than once or twice a day...Unless you get attacked in which case only the ones who haunt their characters 24/7 to pop some healing food before they get ganked survive. 90% of the game's mechanics point in one direction and the remaining portion, a critical matter of life and death, points in the exact opposite direction. That's a bad mechanic, plain and simple. My solution might not be perfect and it might be completely, unusably horrible, but a solution is needed.

[freiana]

So, how do you propose knowing the general opinion of players? Obviously we need to have -some- idea of what the general opinion is before we accept something...

[Nalaris]

Obviously we need to have -some- idea of what the general opinion is before we accept something...

No, we don't.

[freiana]

Well, I for sure am not planning to accept an idea purely because the one who came up with it thinks its a good idea... Especially for changes this big, I do think there needs to be at least an indication of a broader base of acceptance amongst players. (Let's at least -try- to be kind of democratic, right?)

[Nalaris]

There's not just two options, going based off the word of one guy who came up with things and installing tyranny by majority. Going with the majority is guaranteed to end up screwing over the minority. Historically, this leads to atrocities and horrific human rights abuse. Because this is a video game, it's going to end up with a bunch of people leaving because 80% of the players decided they wanted a change that benefits only them at the expense of the minority instead of coming to any sort of compromise. And then the next decision comes up and the playerbase splits again and again and again, slowly whittling the game's population down to nothing.

There are more ways to organize a community than dictatorship and mob rule.

EDIT: An idea should stand based on its own merits, on the fact that it meshes well with existing mechanics and makes the game more playable in general, not benefiting a majority at the expense of a minority or worse, vice-versa. An idea shouldn't be judged based on popularity, because self-serving things are often very, very popular for the people they benefit. Likewise an idea shouldn't be judged based on who happened to come up with it. An idea should be judged on whether or not it will actually solve the problems at hand.

[Henkie]

Everybody at subscribing gets a note of the forum, if you don't want to come? Fine, but then don't wine when things happen you don't like. The forum is a way of participating in the game development, if you don't want this, that's fine, but don't wine about something you COULD have had a say in.
Cantrians come here to be heard, and they are, those who do not come here obviously don't WANT to be heard, so they have no say at all and don't deserve it until they come here to 'collect' it.

The only people who have any say in the changes are right here on this forum.

[oxyquan]

So, how do you propose knowing the general opinion of players?

Simple - in-game polls.

[freiana]

I fully agree with Henkie. If we can't thrust the forum, what can we thrust? (That sounded deeper than it was meant xD)

To explain myself:
Like I said before, I never said to make -decisions- based on the poll. What I am interested to know is; is there a majority of people that wants a change in the combat system. If there is a clear majority there who is not interested I simply don't see the need of talking about it. I don't say we should directly do what the majority wants, I say we should NOT do what the majority DOESN'T want. Because if we do that, we will scare away that 80% and that sucks a whole lot more.

[Nalaris]

Everybody at subscribing gets a note of the forum, if you don't want to come? Fine, but then don't wine when things happen you don't like.

Sure, but none of that changes the fact that a forum poll will tell us nothing useful. An idea is not good because a bunch of people like it (see again: tyranny by majority), and allowing the majority to steer the direction of the game at expense of the minority will absolutely hack the playerbase slowly but surely into tiny pieces. It doesn't matter if 30% of the forum wants a change and 70% don't, because both of those numbers are huge portions of your playing population and you clearly need some kind of compromise between them.

[Henkie]

Democracy IS tyranny of the majority, stop your socialist babble and just agree to the best way we have.
Those who aren't here show no interest in game development, so they do NOT have to be included in it, they can include themselves.