Alcoholic beverage changes.

[Doug R.]

I guess I'm the only person that thinks this change would make alcohol -more- popular. Alcohol, right now, is not nearly economically viable enough to sell in regions with potent raw healing foods. I have a character that only makes mead. This is their life, but the only people buying it seem to see it as a novelty. They're -not- buying it for it's healing capacity - it's simply too expensive. Honey is a lot cheaper, and wouldn't be affected. I have characters trying to increase their fighting skill, and they -would- pay for an energy restorative so they could get 3-5 more attacks per day. That nearly doubles their skill advancement rate.

[SumBum]

Power gamer!

[Addicted]

at SumBum

Okay Doug I can see those points. The training in fighting skill would be useful for those that have access and are well off. My rich ones would benefit and the poor ones or those in isolated or primitive settings will be mixed with most leaning to being disadvantaged by the change.

So far I seem to agree with everyone.

[lulkoek]

I don't think disadvantages for some characters should be the reason to not apply a change. The world isn't fair and if you want Cantr to be fair, get rid of the whole fighting system as it is today.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

But this would also mean that you don't think advantages for some characters should be the reason to apply a change.

It's the fault of the characters if they produce something that they don't need. No reason to punish all the characters that produced some stuff exactly for it's original purpose by changing it without better reasons than those that had been mentioned until now.

When tea lost it's function, there was a serious reason for it. If this reason no longer exists (I would suppose that, if now alcoholic beverages should get that function), why not just simply give the function back to tea? Would be also fair to all those characters that still sit on large supplies of tea.

Adding: stomach capacity will be the limitation for both, healing and restoring energy.

[Piscator]

The reason for deactivating tea is still there. Nothing has changed about that. What we're considering is not reimplementing energy restoration, but implementing energy restoration limited by drunkenness.

If we want to reactivate tea, we would have to assign an intoxication value to it, at least temporarily until we can limit its use by stomach capacity. (Something which I would rather not do until the stomach capacity value is final to avoid having to change the value of tea more often than necessary.)

[Ronja Rotschopf]

I think if there is really no better idea than those changes, you should consider a compensation (e.g. a similar amount of similar effective healing food) for those characters that really produced a considerable amount of alcoholic beverages because they wanted it for healing purposes.

None of my characters produced tea while it was still restoring energy and none of my characters would have produced alcoholic beverages (mainly beer and mead) if it's only (or main) purpose would have been restoring energy. I don't like that there is such a change considered for anything related to active fighting (improving the skill, giving the chance for more attacks).

But if you can find alcoholic beverages that nobody produced in considerable amounts until now and change only their purposes, I wouldn't mind. Or introduce a new one if it's easier.

And still I think that reactivating tea (with limitation) would be the best solution. Cantr players are used to having to wait, so why introduce anything new, if there is already an existing solution that just needs more fine tuning?

[Rebma]

I agree with most of what Ronja has said, in that I don't think that something that is so widely used for one purpose should be changed in function like that. I mean, you could still balance healing with drunkenness in the same way.

It makes more sense to use the things that were originally -for- energy restoration instead of changing something from healing to energy.

None of my characters would ever (and never have done) spend time to make energy restoring things, though they would- and have- for healing. (since everyone is stating about how it affects them directly)

[lulkoek]

But this would also mean that you don't think advantages for some characters should be the reason to apply a change.

Don't twist my words. I never said that, I said "I don't think disadvantages for some characters should be the reason to not apply a change." which is something else all together.

I was referring to the post right before mine, being that the resource rich regions would likely benefit more from this than the resource poor regions.

[curious]

If this change makes alcohol more popular... I'm all for it.
One of my characters could really use the break.

Do it..!!

[wadko]

@topic: I don't like this idea.
@thread: tl;dr
PS. Shouldn't this thread be in the suggestions?

[EchoMan]

No. It's more or less an announcement. But open for discussion.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

If this change makes alcohol more popular...

That's exactly the point that is really questionable. The answer for all my (14) characters is "no".

If it gets implemented (without compensation) nevertheless I would rather grasp it as an attempt to destroy the value of already produced stuff in order to solve the problem of overproduction.

But Cantr is also considered as a society-simulation. And overproduction/wealth in some parts of the world/society (where people are bored and distressed, because they already have everything they need and don't know how to spend their time meaningfully) and poverty in other parts of the world/society (where people have to struggle to survive) are the same problems ingame and in RL.

[Slyder_Glyder_Ryder_etc]

Everyone who can make alcoholic beverages easily wants the change, everyone who can't, doesn't. As someone who doesn't care either way, well it just seems irrational. I thought Cantr was supposed to have a bit of realism mixed in. Alcohol does NOT restore energy, it just makes you sleepy, stupid, horny, hilarious, and a great dancer. If you want alcohol to be more popular, make it so it restores a bit more health unless you drink too much then it takes a bit away or something like that. Fix and re implement tea as energy if you want energy. And EVERYONE needs to stop being so greedy and basing their opinions on this matter off of what's best for their characters. Do what's best for Cantr. Period.

That is all... I think.

[EchoMan]

I think it's somewhat difficult to really see what is best for Cantr all the time, since all you really know i based upon the situation your characters are in. I have characters in the English language group, as well as in the (currently very small) Swedish LG. There are huge differences to wealth, trade and development between the two. I have hardly any idea how things are in the Polish LG, though I have heard it is well developed. As for the other LG's I have no idea at all.