Apothecary / Tea Removal Clarification

[Cogliostro]

Yes, well, I have brought suggestions about the combat system, trade system etc. etc. - these were many, ingenious and varied. Some even had "rave reviews" with the punters. What's happened to all of those? Nothin', they're still in the suggestions bin, and nobody can be bothered with any of it.

But when a group of well-prepared maniacs kill a bunch of English Establishment people, the gears of war go into action and the foot is brought down, hard. They are killing the Established Englishpeople! We can't have any of that, can we now?

By the way, making sure things are balanced was our job, way back when these things were first added. Not years later after they're a significant part of the game dynamic already, period. It's not too late though, bust out your scientific calculator and just do some rough figures, on How Long It Would Take, for a group of 5 to completely arm themselves, stock healfoods and have a van full of tea or herbal mix. Just do up a rough picture there, and see if you don't suddenly get a little more respect for these "idiot" powergamers who everyone is coming down on for just doing what everyone else does anyway, powertripping.

The entire reason the combat is a useless mess (craptastic both ways, craptastic for attacker, and just as bad for defender) is that it's basically an amalgam of nerfs made over the years, in the same vein as this one, just less spectacularly ridiculous. So team, maybe we should put the blocks/chesspieces right back, where they were, huh? Undisable what you disabled, and let's go back to the drawing board, and seriously work on a better - not a more nerfed - combat system. After all, in all previous precedent, that has been your wise and neutral policy. What's up with the inexplicable favouritism now?

[Piscator]

To be clear about it, this measure is not supposed to be a final solution to anything. It's meant to prevent further abuse of a serious bug in the combat system (namely that five well armed people can practically nuke a town of any size) while we're fixing the problem.

[Meem]

I have no problem with it... never used the tea anyway except in roleplay of teatime.

[CrashBlizz]

They are killing the Established Englishpeople!

1. Its not just established people
2. You obviously have something against the english but cantr is not the place to take out your petty grudge
3. The same would be done no matter where the problem was

(Edit: Removed some unneccesary flaming. /Mod)

*sniffles* I was only saying what we were all thinking

*Runs off looking for that quote saying whats neccesary and isn't is a matter of opinion*

[Cogliostro]

Don't tell me, that has only occured to you now? It's a "bug" again, huh? We never knew it was possible before for 5 people do that, huh. Are you kiddding me? 5 people simultaneously online, in Cantr's world is about equal to an atomic bomb, and they SHOULD be able to wipe out entire towns, if it wasn't for all the unfair nerfs in place to artificially stop them.

You've already determined they were not cheating (we hope, I know). By what right can you take away their triumph of the will, that's what I don't understand about your position. After all, they played by the rules.

You with your emergency changes, are not.

[Chris]

Good move, staff!

The game isn't intended to be played like a FPS multiplayer tournament. Towns can go for years without an incident more serious than a newspawn thief. People can have the best shields and a large stock of healing food. They can check Cantr several times per day to play. But they can still be wiped out in a matter of a few seconds. Real-time combat is out of synch with the time patterns of the rest of the game, which is measured in hours and days, not seconds.

[EchoMan]

But when a group of well-prepared maniacs kill a bunch of English Establishment people, the gears of war go into action and the foot is brought down, hard. They are killing the Established Englishpeople! We can't have any of that, can we now?

You are trying to turn this into something it is not. If this massacre had happened in another language group, rest assured we would have reacted the same way.

By the way, making sure things are balanced was our job, way back when these things were first added. Not years later after they're a significant part of the game dynamic already, period. It's not too late though, bust out your scientific calculator and just do some rough figures, on How Long It Would Take, for a group of 5 to completely arm themselves, stock healfoods and have a van full of tea or herbal mix. Just do up a rough picture there, and see if you don't suddenly get a little more respect for these "idiot" powergamers who everyone is coming down on for just doing what everyone else does anyway, powertripping.

I'll do one without the calculator. Prepare for five years, then take out town after town after town, without any opposition. Restock from their stores after you killed everyone. Then complete the tour until the island is dead, and you "have won" the game.

[KVZ]

They are killing the Established Englishpeople!

1. Its not just established people
2. You obviously have something against the english but cantr is not the place to take out your petty grudge
3. The same would be done no matter where the problem was

Bah, there was about 3 (at least) massacres using tea in Polish Zone, and nothing was done after each of them. Many players leaved game or lost interest, but when something like this happen in English Zone, there are fast moves to disable it...

[Meem]

But when a group of well-prepared maniacs kill a bunch of English Establishment people, the gears of war go into action and the foot is brought down, hard. They are killing the Established Englishpeople! We can't have any of that, can we now?

You are trying to turn this into something it is not. If this massacre had happened in another language group, rest assured we would have reacted the same way.

By the way, making sure things are balanced was our job, way back when these things were first added. Not years later after they're a significant part of the game dynamic already, period. It's not too late though, bust out your scientific calculator and just do some rough figures, on How Long It Would Take, for a group of 5 to completely arm themselves, stock healfoods and have a van full of tea or herbal mix. Just do up a rough picture there, and see if you don't suddenly get a little more respect for these "idiot" powergamers who everyone is coming down on for just doing what everyone else does anyway, powertripping.

I'll do one without the calculator. Prepare for five years, then take out town after town after town, without any opposition. Restock from their stores after you killed everyone. Then complete the tour until the island is dead, and you "have won" the game.

....But it's not a game to be won. It's just cantr...

[CrashBlizz]

They are killing the Established Englishpeople!

1. Its not just established people
2. You obviously have something against the english but cantr is not the place to take out your petty grudge
3. The same would be done no matter where the problem was

Bah, there was about 3 (at least) massacres using tea in Polish Zone, and nothing was done after each of them. Many players leaved game or lost interest, but when something like this happen in English Zone, there are fast moves to disable it...

Maybe the mods don't speak polish... *shrugs* Did you write your complaint in english???

[FreerangeBean]

I've got chars on both side of this, with one being beaten nearly to death in a raid and another having spent years making tiredness potions that will now become pointless. She'd brewed those potions in the name of city defense.

As much as I don't want a character I've developed into his sixties to be killed at random by thugs, the fact that this could happen to any character at any time is something you accept being able to happen.

Cantr isn't The Sims, it's a world that emulates the precarious and threadbare existance we've evolved through to be here today, which even now is only protected by a thin veil of law enforcements that still are of no great use if 5 people want to burst in your house and stab you to death. They might catch them afterwards, but in the instance of the event, there is no magic coding that prevents the crime from being possible.

Would an era of warfare be that regrettable in Cantr? At the moment, raids, piracy and criminal behaviour is a logistical nightmare, I'm not sure it has been Power-playing. I've seen 3 of my characters longest-serving friends slaughtered, but given this is the first time I've seen it happening, I wouldn't consider it a massive issue. We are meant to maintain a detachment from our characters in order to not want to capitalize on any OOC information.

So what other benefits could these potions be reassigned to?

How about if, instead of battle-tiredness, the potions work as a sort of gathering, manufacturing-type boost? Could there even be an addiction risk, a la Fallout, which'd result in a skill-hinderence? This could maybe drive some cultivating underground in certain regions.

[Doug R.]

Bah, there was about 3 (at least) massacres using tea in Polish Zone, and nothing was done after each of them. Many players leaved game or lost interest, but when something like this happen in English Zone, there are fast moves to disable it...

Fast? This is about the tenth town (and no, I'm not exaggerating) that this group has wiped out over the course of a year. This was not a fast move. It was a temporary prevention until we can fix the imbalance, one way or another.

[CrashBlizz]

Would an era of warfare be that regrettable in Cantr? At the moment, raids, piracy and criminal behaviour is a logistical nightmare, I'm not sure it has been Power-playing. I've seen 3 of my characters longest-serving friends slaughtered, but given this is the first time I've seen it happening, I wouldn't consider it a massive issue. We are meant to maintain a detachment from our characters in order to not want to capitalize on any OOC information.

No, in fact an era of war would be very good for certain regions in the game.

But what is going on is not war, it is just going around and killing off every single character instantaniously, before going down the road and doing it again, to do it again, to do it again... presumably until theres a 5 man island.

[Cogliostro]

Have some caution with this everyone. If you think in terms of fixing imbalances, all you're bound to do is invent even more stopgaps, in the form of nightmarish nerfs that serve to make an occasional deadly raid totally impossible...

Why is it that imbalances are routinely implemented and accepted as due, when those work to protect our established characters and player investment in them, but a completely legal and by-the-book way of using tea by the game's "terrorists" is now being classed as a bug to be fixed? People even called it an exploit. On what grounds?

We want to have an EXCITING combat system, with wisely incorporated imbalances creating satisfying interplay between the opposing forces, and eliminating clickfesting.

Please, no more surprise-meddling with the existing economy (like doubling production rates, increasing requirements etc., when everyone's gotten well used to the old way and depends on it), and no more nerfs!

[Cogliostro]

Crash: But that's the only effective possibility that has been left to the raiders with the current combat system. There's no other war in Cantr except this clickfesty war of who's-online-when and who has more insta-use heal/energy supplies.