No guns...but we got limos?

[rklenseth]

The people on Cantr haven't discovered saltpepper yet so no gunpowder meaning no guns.

But the Cantr people might discover saltpepper someday and lead to guns. You just never know do you.

[Sho]

Argh. . . saltpeter, not saltpepper.

@Lone Wolf: Yes, I know. I wasn't saying that guns would be anything like modern guns, but there are still disadvantages, which I guess I neglected to spell out.
A: Any weapon that deals more than 50 percent damage to an unarmoured person would make it too easy for a pair of people to massacre a town.
B: If I'm right, it would probably take quite a bit of work to implement weapons that use ammunition, not to mention add three new resources (lead, saltpeter and sulfur) and a new manufaturing chain (involving bullets and gunpowder at the least).
C: Even if guns are, as you say, more like the medieval hand cannon rather than the modern automatic rifle, the concept of a gun (which most people interpret as being a modern rifle or handgun) is a bit too modern. Yes, cars and helicopter engines are modern too, but that doesn't mean we should open the door to more new things.
D: If you want a defensive weapon, don't make it a gun. Guns would be just as portable as any other weapon and would therefore be just as easy to use offensively, unless you make the bullets really heavy, which would be unrealistic.

[rklenseth]

Ah, yes, they would run out of ammo.

That and since making a sword is hard then guns would be double that as well as finding a stable source of saltpeter and other key ingredients in order to make gunpowder over and over again. Then we can't forget the bullet or ball would have to made too.

And remember older guns are extremely inaccurate so the chances of missing would most likely be greater.

[Meh]

There is no point to guns in the game without the concept of shooting from a distiance, poisioning, and continung damge from wounds. A steel fencing foil, a sabre, is more effective anyway. With the current rule system a gun would be no more powerful than a warbow.

[Spectrus_Wolfus]

and realisticaly the early form's of muzzle loader's where uterly useless really in the fact that a train archer could fire off 3-4 shot's to the one from a musket but the advantage was that with a musket it would produce a large cloud of smoke covering the firer from possibly being hit themselves plus the tremendous noise a volley of musket fire produced was enough to send many people running.if they had of stopeed and thought the english long bow would possibly been better even still in the 16th-17th century eara accept that a soldier could carry well over 100 shot's for a musket on them where as 100 arrow's would sure make it a pain to march 20 miles

[west]

You should remember that cantr objects are not always identical to their real-life namesakes. A gram really isn't a gram, hours, minutes, years, etc. aren't really the same.

I like the idea of cantr not being exactly like real life--why bother playing cantr if it was?

It's a society simulator, not a reality simulator.

Nobody in-game knows that 'real' cars have to have fuel.

Why would they in-game?

Couldn't it just be 'one of those things'?

Part of what makes cantr great are the idiosyncrasies, the discrepencies between what we expect and what we get, and so forth.

There was no Time Anomaly in real life, but it's a permanent part of Cantr history, which is awesome.


Blah

getting really tired....

[Nick]

Units of measurement and concepts of science are two different things, West.
And I have done 52 damage with a crossbow before, so Sho's comment in that regard is rather irrelevant.

[Chrissy]

No guns.

Chrissy

[g1asswa1ker]

Cantr is of a different realm then ours. It's tech has developed differantly. Guns have not been invented yet but cars have. Some of you think cantr is on the same development scale as here on earth. Just look at the weight difference of buldings and such 25kg for a stone building doesn't translate to much in lb. Darn I mean has anyone actually sat down and viewed the cantr world as a scientist would.

[Lone Wolf]

[quote="Sho"]Argh. . . saltpeter, not saltpepper.

@Lone Wolf: Yes, I know. I wasn't saying that guns would be anything like modern guns, but there are still disadvantages, which I guess I neglected to spell out.
A: Any weapon that deals more than 50 percent damage to an unarmoured person would make it too easy for a pair of people to massacre a town.


What I had said was that the shooter whould lose 50% of strength should he add too much gun powder and it back fires.
The old muskets allowed you to shoot from a farther distance. If we could shoot while traveling we could attack a town from the outside instead of from the inside. We could also defend the town from criminals who are on their way down a path. The biggest flaw with the old muskets or "hand cannnon", which someone wanted to call it, is the smoke, you couldn't hide, people could tell where you are. With guns implemented people could start gun stores. but I'd want to see the resources needed placed far apart. You may be able to make a gun with Steel, and wood (or Bone for an ivory handle) but you may need a boat to travel to another land mass to find the saltpeter. I thnk that salt-peter and Sulfer should be far apart and in large ammounts. It would be very hard to make powder and if someone could set the trade up, it could become a profitable business. People also seem to be concerned of people raiding towns. Don't for get a good wood shield would protect you form musket loaders, an iron shield would protect you fully. Musket loaders were not that powerfull, nor were they accurate at all. The balls would fly off on angles. Their are advantages and disadvantages to these guns...a person would need to perfect it for it to be a great threat.

[The Industriallist]

What you are describing would make an opportunity for a hard to detect but incredibly deadly CR breach: knowing the correct loading method for a gun.

Also, you have a massive revision to the combat system implied in your last post. But to be better than a crossbow, the gun would have to have more than 42 average damage. With all this ammo complication, a lot more.

If they are neither accurate nor powerful, why bother at all? I seem to recall that they were supposed to be better at punching through a knight's armour than other ranged weapons.

I think guns might someday be suitable, but there are a lot of things that need to come first. Guns aren't all that important an 'improvement'.

Also, if you have gunpowder, you should be able to blow things up...another entire issue.

[kroner]

You can pretend that crossbow says "gun". A nice, fairly powerful weapon but with fairly high chance of missing. The "gun" also has infinite ammo and no loading complications but is hard to make becuase it requires steel, some complex machinery and a lot of time.

[KVZ]

you can pretend many things... even that wooden bow is another name of plasma rifle... and those hordes of animals are aliens from outer space (especialy because they arrived later)

[Meh]

I've always considered Cantr a little like living in Riverworld.

[David]

I've always considered living in cantr a little like Green Acres.