What Government Type?

[Tiamo]

Close, but not quite. Macchiavelli says all means are acceptable when effective in ruling a state. Evil behaviour & corruption usually are bad for government, thus are not acceptable.
The people play no role whatsoever, Macchiavelli reasons from the viewpoint of the ruler. Democracy didn't exist in Macchiavelli's time.

[Mr. Black]

Ah, I understand. So, no matter what you do, as long as it furthers the purpose of the government, is alright, correct?

[Tiamo]

'A leader has got to do what he has got to do', is what Macchiavelli says. I slightly disagree...

[Dudel]

I think a leader shouldn't lead at all. He/She should teach then once people are set up and ready to go he/she should move on and teach another area/town what he knows. Staying in charge of a governement makes people do things the shouldn't. When no on is in charge it makes for a much more simple way of life. Once the population of an area reaches a certain point this way won't exactally work anymore and you will be forced to implement basic laws and punishments before you leave. I still think that no one should remain in a seat of power for very long. (Be that one person or a council)

[Mr. Black]

I, personally, think people are rather stupid. I mean, a person is smart, but people as a whole are stupid. That's why I support a republic system where the President/Consul/whatever has more power than the Parliament. One man is more intelligent than a group.

[Gran]

I, personally, think people are rather stupid. I mean, a person is smart, but people as a whole are stupid.

I have similar beliefs. Ironically, I use wikipedia... And have wikinomics on my bookshelf.

Now, the problem of cantrian republics is that they need a lot of bearocracy, thus a lot of people. However, they can mantain themselves active for most of the time. Despotic governaments and dictatorships don't need so many people and don't have the relayed decisions. But if the king falls asleep, you've a problem pal.

I was thinking in something more like the Hun governament system. The king has great power and the place of king ins't hereditary, but controlled by the one who has the strongest will. This would fix the problems of despotism in cantr but can drive the city into a big mess.

EDIT: 1000th post and I'm talking about serious business?! Waste!!!

[joo]

Dictatorship FTW, so much less to worry about.

[DylPickle]

One man is more intelligent than a group.

One man is more efficient than a group. Intelligence is always questionable.



Dictatorships get boring in the game. Sure, there's "less to worry about", but it's nice to worry about things sometimes. Get a little intrigue going. Mostly, though, it's about variety. Small Republics are possible, but it works better with larger groups. The problem comes with voting. In my experience, voter turnout is rather small in cantr, for one reason or the other. If something like a parliament is voting on an issue, it can be bogged down due to sleeping MPs. That's why these things in game need to have time limits put onto them. Votes submitted publicly, out loud, before a certain hour count.

Dictatorship in Cantr is just like playing through Halo on Recruit :p It's too easy. Leave it for the noobs.

[viktor]

hmmm i think a semi democratic constitutional dictatorship(monarchy/despotism/empirial....)
works wonders, a constitution which governs law, a ruler to oversee general operations and co-ordinate between towns with the help of a head in each town, where the opinions of people are taken into consideration and some things of a more social effective level are voted on by the general public, administered by the ruler. a national security force and a few common laws(constitutional), and possibly with an implimented economic system

[*Wiro]

Put all people in a big building, behind 6 doors and make them work. That's what one of my characters does. So much less to worry about.

"You work? You get food."

[viktor]

hmmm maybe someone should open up a mine, well, a deep society behind 6 doors, they work and trade at acceptable rates for materials and have thier town just padlocked like a deep fortress hmmm....

[*Wiro]

It would be nice if some resources like stone, hematite, limestone, coal, gas etc could be gathered from some kind of mine building that can be built inside of a normal building. It would certainly be great to create such a town. My character has something planned along the lines of a "town in a town", but it's rather sick and twisted. No one who enters will ever feel the warm sunlight on their skin again.

Maybe being able to grow plants inside? That would be great. Currently all the earthenware things are for outside, right?

[viktor]

you can grow things indoors, you just need to add water earthenware, somethingorothers can be used
but these are just flowers and herbs....

[Jos Elkink]

Close, but not quite. Macchiavelli says all means are acceptable when effective in ruling a state. Evil behaviour & corruption usually are bad for government, thus are not acceptable.
The people play no role whatsoever, Macchiavelli reasons from the viewpoint of the ruler. Democracy didn't exist in Macchiavelli's time.

Hmm, democracy is a lot older than Machiavelli ... And he knew his classics well. In fact, Florence at the time, where Macchiavelli lived, was a republic most of the time, just a princedom for a short time after a coup or something - I forgot the details. So Macchiavelli had been prominent in the republic and then fell out of favour when this prince came to power. So he wrote a book, The Prince, to get favoured again. And in that book he writes as you suggest.

But this is not the only book he wrote. He also wrote on called The Discourses, which is about how to operate a republic, so it is utterly different in style and totally contradictory with the other book. Nobody knows which one of the two really reflect what he thought, but the assumption is the latter book. The Prince, which became more famous, was really just a book he wrote for strategic reasons.

I never got around to reading The Prince but really enjoyed reading The Discourses. Some of the things around Cantr are based on reading that.

[Mr. Black]

Mr. Elkink, it went like this. The D'Medici family, which became rich from the wool trade, took control of the city in 1450, under Cosimo D'Medici. He brought Florence into a golden age of art and dance, even though he was incredibly corrupt. His grandson, Lorenzo Il Magnefico D'Medici, succeeded him and was perhaps the greatest Renaissance prince. After Lorenzo died, the Medici were kicked out of Florence and it became a Republic, after a short period of religious dissent, under Machiavelli. The Medici became popes and they lost half of Europe to the Reformation. Rome was sacked. Finally, Cosimo I D'Medici re-conquered Florence, tortured Machiavelli horribly, crippling him, and declared himself Duke of Florence, which led to a long dynasty of Medici rulers of Florence.