Apologies, and Thanks....

[rconley]

I enjoyed the PD work. Loved dealing with the people I dealt with, MOST of the time. Felt like I was doing some good and actually helping people somewhat. I was doing a good thing and I loved it. But there's someone who believes they can do a better job than myself and the harrassment and abuse I continuously take because I AM staff and active in game, has been way way too much. It was quit staff or quit the game completely. It makes me sad that I had to make this decision because it is and will continue to be something I enjoy doing. I just don't think I'll be much help anymore now that I'm off of staff, and I definitely will have a LOT more time on my hands that I am not sure what I'll do with yet :s

I hope I'm not crossing a line here, and I don't think I am. If I am it is not my intent. But I would like to voice my frustration. I'm not citing specific case information or even saying there is a case involved anyway but I am very very tired and frustrated. From what I am understanding, there seem to be a few who think I have too many active characters who are involved in too many conflicts in game because I actually play. No complaints on my pd work, just how active my characters seem to be and specifically my character's states of mind. That I'm involved in TOO MANY of the conflicts in the game, and that I'm causing too many conflicts as well in character. I think that's the biggest issue with some. It makes their characters have to deal with things they don't want to deal with so I'm criticized for it. Seems the normal complaint and harrassment I'm getting is that my characters are easy to spot because they are so similar. They're also not happy enough to suit some people and cause their characters lives to be hell so I'm disliked as a person because of how my characters behave and because my characters are annoying and irritating and too similar and that I have several leader and strong types that I must have gotten because of some staff conspiracy rather than working in game to get them there. Advice given to me has been make them sleep, don't play so many, keep mine 10 towns apart (not sure how to do so when most are on the same island while carrying 15 characters lives), dont' get them involved in conflict, don't kill, don't get involved in politics, and change them to peaceful characters instead of pirates and violent leaders. Which will totally change the personalities and traits of those I've already spent many many cantr years setting up and establishing. So in other words, I've been advised to play nice or don't play by some. People's characers get hurt / killed and that seems to be the problem with my characters. It's rather irritating. I'm not staff anymore, I should have the same guidelines and rules as everyone else. We'll see if that is actually the case or if I'm only allowed to play characters by someone else's standards.

[15454]

I would like to thank you Randi for all the help from you I got while you were on PD. I remember you helping me with a few incidents I had with others and it really worked out. I am depressed that you are leaving the PD but I will still talk to you all the time.

Edit: If I read what you just said right then I want to add it wasn't the PD work that made Randi's characters good, it was your pure ability which I am jealous of sometimes But I believe we need more people like you.

[Solfius]

Sounds like you play the kind of characters that make the game interesting for me...

I can understand concerns over staff abuse of power. It's hard for the staff to prove their not doing something.


If playing in a style that prefers strategy over roleplaying, that prefers waging war, building empires, and focuses on politics and power is wrong, then I'm wrong, because my characters are all rather bland in terms of personality, they are differentiated by their goals, and I enjoy building up power and influence. Naturally, that sets the scene for conflict to develop.

I prefer it to roleplaying, even if I do try to roleplay a bit.

More than that though, for me, conflict makes the game more interesting. I spend enough of my time wondering why I bother as it is, a bit of conflict at least presents a challenge, and, as a result, a reason to play.

I can understand people enjoy playing the game different ways.

However, I can't understand how someone can be too active. In my opinion, inactivity kills the game.

Although, what I find is that activity is too concentrated, but I think that is due to how Cantr represents spaces (infinitely spacious locations connected by roads, like points and lines of an undirected graph), as you find many towns virtually unpopulated, and then other towns with so much activity it's almost impossible to make yourself heard.

Regardless, without activity, there is no game. Someone who is active, is stimulating the game. Given the choice, I'd rather be in an extremely noisy town than a ghost town, even if it does make it harder to keep up and play, at least there'd be people to play with.


Reading this thread, and everything written thus far, I have to say this isn't the kind of thing I would have expected from the Cantr community (even if it was just a small part of it or even a single person). I'd say, based on what you've written, that you were unfairly and badly treated, and the thing that saddens me the most is how vicious it seems to be.

Needless to say, I dislike this kind of conduct.

(I realise I've rambled on far too much now, if you actually read this far without giving up and posting "TLDR", I admire your patience )

[the_antisocial_hermit]

TLDR

[Solfius]

TLDR

Thanks hermit

[the_antisocial_hermit]

TLDR

Thanks hermit

Anytime.

[Cdls]

Wow...

That is the only thing that came to mind when reading this. How pathetic is it that a volunteer staff and a player base of a FREE game is able to push out someone that really does care about making the game better? With advice such as "

make them sleep, don't play so many, keep mine 10 towns apart, dont' get them involved in conflict, don't kill, don't get involved in politics, and change them to peaceful characters instead of pirates and violent leaders.

" that, how can there be any real surprise that there is a decline in the player base.

Maybe someone should reword the main page to include something along the lines of "Although we state you can play any kind of character, we ask that you refrain from making all the characters interesting to keep it fair to others. We also ask that you do not play all your characters at once, and make others sleep so that people will not complain" Or even better yet, why dont you just make a general guideline for all to use for now on, such as:

15 characters

4 must be sleepers
Limit of two being involved in politics
Can only have one that is defined as "aggressive"
Have the others just build stuff


As for the players that can't handle the fact that someone actually enjoys playing enough to make things happen, go back to playing WOW, or some other game that doesn't actually take thought into what or who your character can become.

[rconley]

However, I can't understand how someone can be too active.

It can cause characters to cross and though there may be nothing there to thier even being near each other and goals can be completely different, assumptions can be made that a player can be using characters together when they really are not. Players assume and when the answer they want is not given in return for their accusations especially if their character is put off (despite the higher ups looking into and investigating) in any way of course it's staff conspiracy and coverups. Certain players don't lke that mine are killing, looting, taking over, or interfering in the personal lives of other characters and their significant others. This seems to be the main issue with mine. People don't like what they do. I am very manipulative with my characters, I am well aware of that. They cause conflict and therefore are "annoying" and "irritating" because others' characters are forced to put up with it.

And it isn't so much that I keep getting these accusations. I could handle if a player truly thinks that I am abusing my power as a staff member or truly believes that I am cheating....report it to staff. Contact the GAB, do not constantly continue to harrass the player because YOU do not like the findings on issues. I have no issue with people reporting me but let the PD / GAB do their job and handle it. Remember it is all a game.

[carlaco]

Which will totally change the personalities and traits of those I've already spent many many cantr years setting up and establishing. So in other words, I've been advised to play nice or don't play by some.

No offense to anyone in particular, but unless it's a "higher up" telling you to do this for a system related reason, who gives a **** what others think?

And are there no rules in place for harassment of staff? IMO, those involved should be game penalized for disruptive behavior rather then running you out of your position. You deserve respect for your official position alone, those who cannot differentiate between ooc and rp are hardly worth listening to to begin with...

But I get your frustration.

Another game I played I had a strong character who some felt was a bit too..outspoken and powerful. A group of players got together and decided to slander me in real life to chase me off the game.

It worked...I quit the game, but their rp aspect fell apart, and I created a more successful game with more than half their playerbase

Staff should be protected, and I feel it regrettable that you quit your office. Cantr lost another valuable asset.

[wichita]

I can understand concerns over staff abuse of power. It's hard for the staff to prove their not doing something.

There's the rub. I wish I could think of a way to help get around this as well, but it does seem to repeatedly haunt us. Not to sound too fatalistic or anti-humanitarian, but I suppose it is a somewhat inevitable side effect of having an increasingly anti-authoritarian / paranoid world culture.

Just to vent my frustrations a bit, which as a "higher up" might not mean a whole lot, but I usually feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place with sharp pointy spikes sticking out of it when trying to deal with staff corruption accusations. If we look into it and don't find out that the staff member was cheating, then the person who made the complaint more often than not will throw a big tantrum and tell us we're biased and just covering it up. If we find out the staff member is guilty, then it looks like we're not sticking up for staff well enough.

Not every time, of course, but just enough to make it really really, really not fun.

More than that though, for me, conflict makes the game more interesting. I spend enough of my time wondering why I bother as it is, a bit of conflict at least presents a challenge, and, as a result, a reason to play.

I completely and totally agree here, and I am pretty sure that I always have. Nearly all of the best things for the game have come out of violent and intricate conflicts in character. From wars over resource gathering restrictions to just sheer terrorism, nothing has ever united and simulated society like good old political drama.

Reading this thread, and everything written thus far, I have to say this isn't the kind of thing I would have expected from the Cantr community (even if it was just a small part of it or even a single person). I'd say, based on what you've written, that you were unfairly and badly treated, and the thing that saddens me the most is how vicious it seems to be.

Needless to say, I dislike this kind of conduct.

I can't say that I am entirely happy with the conduct either - players or staff. I am not going to drop details, as it would be very inappropriate to begin spraying information all over the forum. CONFIDENTIALITY IS NOT ALWAYS SECRET CONSPIRACY, IT'S MOST OFTEN RESPONSIBLE COMMON DECENCY (You know who you are.)

I haven't been involved with GAC and GAB for ages, but I hope that we have managed to be as fair and supportive as possible with staff members. Unfortunately, we're human too. Frustrations fly, especially when you have ample examples of immature and selfish behavior flicking you in the nose repeatedly.

Things got said that I am not happy about, and some things didn't get say that should have and I am not happy about that either. All I can say is that we try, and will try to do better. We, as staff, do try to hold ourselves to a higher standard, IC and OOC.

And are there no rules in place for harassment of staff? IMO, those involved should be game penalized for disruptive behavior rather then running you out of your position. You deserve respect for your official position alone, those who cannot differentiate between ooc and rp are hardly worth listening to to begin with...

We do have rules in place, and do make efforts to protect staff. Trust me when I say that this is not an example of GAB selling out to complaints and pushing a staffer out simply because we want to placate an abusive player. This unfortunate turn of affairs has been in the works for a good long while...

Unfortunately, continuing with my thoughts at the beginning of this rather long winded rant of my own, it feels like sticking up for staff gets us into even more trouble. "You're biased", "of course you're just going to side with staff", "useless"...

And thanks to the lovely gifts of the sixties of whining protests and activism, they who bitch the loudest the longest earn the privilege of being right... Yes, that is just a little bit sarcastic, but not too far off.


Bottom line.

Please play nice with others, everyone, and just play the game. Be nice to the Players Department. They really are just trying to help make sure we are all screwing each other over IC as fairly as possible. They don't hunt down your characters and they don't read and trade your events for fun bedtime reading material. If they ever do, we do have ways of finding out, and we will deal with them just the same as any other cheater.

That doesn't mean that you can tell them to f*** off, or call them b****es, or f***w**s, or c****gs, or ****** ******** **** ***********, even though so many of them are begging for it. (please, someone be cultured enough to spot that reference). That's headed the right way for a smacked bottom, let me warn you right now.


TLDR

[the_antisocial_hermit]

CONFIDENTIALITY IS NOT ALWAYS SECRET CONSPIRACY, IT'S MOST OFTEN RESPONSIBLE COMMON DECENCY

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line.

Please play nice with others, everyone, and just play the game. Be nice to the Players Department. They really are just trying to help make sure we are all screwing each other over IC as fairly as possible. They don't hunt down your characters and they don't read and trade your events for fun bedtime reading material. If they ever do, we do have ways of finding out, and we will deal with them just the same as any other cheater.

That doesn't mean that you can tell them to f*** off, or call them b****es, or f***w**s, or c****gs, or ****** ******** **** ***********, even though so many of them are begging for it. (please, someone be cultured enough to spot that reference). That's headed the right way for a smacked bottom, let me warn you right now.


TLDR

QFTMFT (aka, agreed)

[cantrlady]

I am enjoying the game, just not the ooc crap that goes along with actually playing it.

Amen! It is more fun just playing the game without having to deal with the rest.

Sorry to see you leave your position....just enjoy the game and perhaps you will find a better fit in another dept. Forget about having your characters sleep their life away - how about just some gazing out over the water

[rconley]

Thank you Wichi.

I do want to stress that yes, I believe the higher ups are getting just as frustrated with issues as I am and others have. I do believe that some of them are doing their very best to handle things fairly and reasonably. I also believe there are other things that could be handled better, but as wichi said they're human too. These are my personal opinions here and others may feel differently and they have that right. I feel like I have been treated unfairly, yes. Not necessarily from all the "higher ups".

My thing is that Im very hurt over some of the things that have been said and done, I'm angry and very upset. I enjoyed PD work while I was there doing it and I enjoyed getting to help those of you I could. It gave me something to occupy my time with and it felt good to be able to help because I did have that time to do it. But when it gets to the point where I am in tears night after night because I care about what people think about me and what is being said and what is being spread around falsely or otherwise it upsets me. And honestly it is not worth crying over anymore and making myself sick and stressed over. The only thing that bothers me more is that I feel like I'm abandoning those of you who asked me to stay. But I also feel to keep my sanity and to stick around for any length of time, it was the only choice I had anymore.

If you don't like what my characters are doing in game and you feel I'm being unfair in any way. Report it, but let those put there to handle it do their job. They are trying and will stop any cheating going on. Believe me they will interrogate and speak with any staff member just as easily as other players. We get the same treatment.

If you don't like what I'm doing in game and you have no reason to suspect any cheating. LEAVE IT IN GAME! OOC comments / threats, harrassment outside of the game is stupid and it is ridiculous to go through over and over again. There is a difference in OOC and IC and some people don't realize that.

Sometimes things happen in game that you don't like. It happens because there ARE so many other types of characters in the game. I myself have lost characters prematurely because someone else played it out better than I did, or decided mine weren't needed around anymore. It happens and it sucks sometimes but it is something we ALL deal with in this game and not something that can be controlled by you as a player. Suck it up, move on and hope for better luck with your next character. I get just as attached to my characters but personally find it challenging when someone wants to take mine out and try to use it as a good rp opportunity. Being killed off or not, there is ALMOST always the chance to rp it out whether you know the final result or you can manage to talk your way out of it. That's the challenge. It is your choice whether you take the challenge and try or give up with a "f*** you!" to the character in game or the player outside of it.

[rconley]

cantrlady wrote:

Sorry to see you leave your position....just enjoy the game and perhaps you will find a better fit in another dept. Forget about having your characters sleep their life away - how about just some gazing out over the water

Don't expect I'll be wasting my time joining another department though.....and


LOL Not funny! :p

[wichita]

You have to admit, it's kind of funny...