Low Population Theory

[N-Aldwitch]

You know what would hook players in, make war more interesting, make war more fun, minimalise loss, not piss people off, all in one package?

Some system of reviving recently-deceased.

Can you imagine it? People wouldn't end up quitting becasue they lost a character in war- you'd have vans that were renamed 'Pok Ambulance 01' that rush to a dead character to see if they can revive him/her.
There would be more war as people would not fear perma-death..

Even a 50% chance of revival using some special tool like a defibrillator (sp?) that is slightly resource-expensive would work well, and it should restore the person's health to 1%.

What do others think of this? It's not entirely unfair that a person can be revived, heh. I'm sure you've heard stories where a survivor of a war or someone who was injured, was killed pretty unfairly by some random animal attack.

And imagine the emotion and RP..
'So and so died in battle..'
'Oh i loved him so much, *cries*'
then
'we have good news. We brought his body back to the healing center and were able to revive him. he is very lucky'...

That would probably be the best Cantr addon I'd have seen in 3 years.

[Sekar]

Isn't perma-kill kinda what makes this game unique? And besides, Cantr isn't about war. I know you seem to think it is, but it really isn't. Your the most pro-violence player I know. I can understand why you would love to see this revival thing implemented, considering how many of your characters get killed.

[N-Aldwitch]

No, I agree with you, it is not all about killing even though the entire system is tilted towards it (ie the whole technological tree is philosophically aimed at the acquirement of arms.. weapons).

And besides - it will definitely still be unique in the sense that you still have a very high chance of perma-dying, but at least you then can rely on in-game friends to revive you.

[DylPickle]

At most, I'd say an unconscious state at around 90%, where they would creep down 1% every hour, wouldn't be able to see or do anything, etc. They could still be finished off, but they'd have to be revived in some way, in order to survive. Once revived, they will be able to see and talk, but will be blocked from any other actions for a relatively long period of 5 to 20 days, maybe.

This would stop the heavily wounded from jumping up into battle again right away.

[Chris]

I'm not talking about war. Wars are fought between two civilizations, or two very large groups of people. I'm talking about how in cantr, people fight way more in a single society then they do in real life.

You are lucky to live in a peaceful time and place. Not everyone is or has been so lucky. Violent crime, riots, dueling, feuds, and on and on. Real life is full of violence, on a small scale as well as large. Ever heard of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer? But really, if you are murdered, it's most likely to be by someone you know ... maybe a jealous husband or a drunk neighbor.

[SekoETC]

No reviving, Cantr technology is not high enough for that. One of the things that made me join Cantr was death being permanent. If getting beaten to 90% or past it would have a great deal of influence on your abilities and appearance then it would be good. Healing taking a longer time (there could be limits on how much healing food you can eat in a day) and serious injuries being permanent would create an environment where violence has long term effects and cannot be just shrugged off because if you much down several kilos of popcorn or onions then it's like nothing ever happened. I bet people would think twice about hitting someone in the back with a battle axe or what ever if there was a chance of the victim getting paralyzed and you might have to drag them around for the rest of their life. In some cases people hit full strength just to be able to drag a person. I guess that compares to knocking people out to make them stop struggling but when you use a bladed weapon and full strength, irl it would most likely kill the person or at least cause weeks of suffering.

[The Sociologist]

I find it infinitely sad that N-Aldwitch can write a whole long account of how the game changed over time without mentioning the part played by system changes.

There were wars aplenty and also conflicting cultures that had been built up with exquisite care to detail. When the tiredness/skills system was introduced, these wars ended abruptly, and over a period the cultures collapsed as their founding players left the game. Don't think for a moment that "MacGregors" or "Lad Empire" as seen over the past two real life years bear any relation to what they were when they were founded or what they had been intended to be.

The second great wave of collapse followed the introduction of the new animal system and the resulting waves of impossible lag. There were many of us who warned of this, just as we had warned about the earlier changes. The net effect was that the building of great technological cultures, and especially multi-town systems based on such technology, tended to fall by the wayside. It was simply too much to expect when one battled to perform enough actions even to keep oneself fed.

The net result is that people who could play more active and intense games left to play them and that the only people who remained here are those who find such other games too threatening. There are now no strategy players or pk-mud players left in Cantr, so this explains the ubiquitous relative "softness" of the remnant cultural ideologies. In other words, the remaining players are such a small and uniquely passive/pacifist subgroup of the overall online gaming and textmud-playing population, that Cantr can no longer serve as an experiment into the nature of such a population.

And that is likewise why I can no longer find the time to play Cantr. It is no longer cost-justified for me.

[mtm21]

Oh, my JOS!!! It is Socialist! *she hugs* Sorry about one of your charries.. You didn't have room to feed her.

[N-Aldwitch]

No reviving, Cantr technology is not high enough for that.

Oh, right, of course, but we can have sports cars yeah?

[SekoETC]

I don't like cars in Cantr and I'm glad it has been made more realistic with the addition of fuel and aluminum. Maybe realism is not fun but I'd rather have steam engines than "Cantr energy". But one of the problems of balancing playability and realism is that a realist industrial economy would require far more workers than a Stone Age village. At least until robots are invented. So the required work effort cannot be acquired without the use of NPCs. Since Cantr doesn't have NPCs they have solved the problem by reducing requirements.

[N-Aldwitch]

Okay yes I agree with you.
Reviving may be a little stupid and a bit high tech.
I don't think they could wrap their minds around that.

Hell my character is having difficulty understanding how he can go from point a, go west, then arrive at point a yet again.......

[MakeBeliever]

Don't think for a moment that "MacGregors" or "Lad Empire" as seen over the past two real life years bear any relation to what they were when they were founded or what they had been intended to be.

How do you come to that conclusion then? On the MacGregor front They still be wearing the kilt, they still be guarding the Gregarach hills with a loyal passion, they still kill at the slightest of insult. They got the Lady, Lord and sword power to back up their mouth and they are not afraid to use it. They have double the lands under their name as the younger days and the clan embrace technology to make them stronger. The Castle still stands strong and Gregors banner still flies high as the MacGregor Clan he formed, now tell me how that is not being the Clan Gregor intended. The Macgregors don't for one minute forget their history thats what makes then who they are and they are Brtual at times in their ways. They still see the lowlanders as Lowlife that needs an education and they guard their limestone with the might of their Claymores so things havn't changed much since the 400's. So pull up your breeks and stop your clan misering because they won't ever be changing their ways.


And from what i recal you didn't like much the skill's system when introduced to the game. Nor the repair front. Well as for repairs they have had their times adapted and it doesn't take but the odd hour to see things polished up and in good order.
As for skills and combat, well i'd have to agree they can be a pain and were a pain introduced midgame, especially when you have a leader that hit's like a puny fairy even when holding the biggest of battle axe's and risks being dragged off because they got no strength behind them.
But, it does bring some diversity to the game and makes for choices when yours is going into battle or who's your best gather's are or manufacturing as a leader. There never was a one hit killer in Cantr, so your's have to be sociable to get others behind you if fighting is what takes your character life. So you just have to make a few friends more if yours happen to be a skinny runt who can't hit worth talking about. But if you have the gift of the gab and are good with people then that doesn't real pose a real problem ingame.
The game is still a society simulator and there still are many strategic players in the game. If there wasn't then nothing would be worked on, nothing would be planned, and we would all be off playing the sims, but some of us do enjoy the game still here and the challenges that come along with it. *pokes the french lands*Although the french lands could do with being a little livelier, mine will end up talking to themselves at this rate and being the town loony.

[MikeH]

I think, in order to keep population growing, people ought to pay more and better attention to newspawns.

I've been playing since the summer, adding characters as I got more into the game. I guess I was lucky in that the first 2 or 3 characters spawned in towns where there were well-developed laws and existing characters that were helpful, but it seemed that some of my other characters were less lucky.

A few spawned in towns where they were just flat out ignored, and one of them had to move to the next town just to get some interaction. And it wasn't that this town was filled with characters who were asleep -- they were talking to each other and moving in and out of buildings -- but they just kept ignoring my newspawn!

My latest was the most rudely treated, which is what makes me think of this thread, because the way the people in this town treated her made me want to quit the game entirely. They ignored their own rules and were just really confrontational for no good reason.

Maybe it's how they RP their characters, and if so, I guess kudos to them for staying "in character". But I'll admit I got really angry with how my character was being treated -- which made me step back and laugh a bit at how invested I was becoming.

But really, newspawns keep things interesting and keep Cantr growing, so shouldn't we be a little more helpful and accommodating??

[the_antisocial_hermit]

But if it is not within your character's personality to be helpful and whatever, then you should not be playing them that way when there's a newspawn. That's the beauty of Cantr; playing all levels of personalities, letting things in the game affect the way your character develops, not being restricted. So many places in Cantr are very friendly and helpful.. it would be horrible if they all were. You need a mix of helpful, nice towns and a mix of harsher or more ignoring towns. The different types of towns can help form some of your character's personality and ideals. It isn't a game about being nice or mean. A character is what it is just as people are what they are. And if towns want newspawns to stay around, the characters should learn in the game what it takes to keep them.

[sanchez]

I agree with MikeH. Anyone who complains about the game not being like the good old days has forgotten the thrill of discovery available to new players. You don't have to be nice to interact. If you culturally ignore or are hostile to spawns, at least leave interesting notes about explaining it. There's no point in only playing with your friends and turning off the very people who can bring new enthusiasm. You give away your right to whine about changes if you do.